Am I Liable? Part 2
This is a follow-up to the post I wrote regarding affiliate liability as it pertains to a recent situation in my business.
In a nutshell…
I had previously recommended a certain copywriter (Nicholas Cole). On my recommendation, one of my readers hired the copywriter.
Unfortunately, the copywriter did not complete the work that he was paid $1344 to do (The agreement was for two sales letters plus 3 landing pages. The copywriter delivered only one sales letter which was irrelevant to the project according to the customer). Rightfully upset, the customer asked for the work to be finished, and when it never happened, he asked for a refund.
The copywriter stopped responding to the customer. The customer tried disputing the payment with PayPal, but by that time it was beyond PayPal’s 45-day limit.
Having exhausted those options, the customer asked ME for the refund, citing that he had trusted my recommendation.
So I blogged about it and asked two questions…
1) Am I legally liable?
2) What is the right and ethical thing to do?
Over 1000 comments were posted - thank you for all the great input!
Regarding the first question (Am I liable?), the responses were nearly unanimous.
Everyone seemed to agree that I was not legally liable for the situation. I had made the recommendation in good faith, and the buyer was responsible for exercising his own due diligence.
Regarding the second question (What should I do?), the responses were mixed.
The majority of commenters agreed that I should not pay the refund to the reader out of my own pocket. In fact, many stated that it could set a bad and potentially dangerous precedent for myself and other marketers.
The most popular opinion seemed to be that it is solely the copywriter’s responsibility to remedy the situation, and the matter is exclusively between the customer and the copywriter.
Some readers suggested that legal action be taken against the copywriter. I’m not a lawyer, but in my opinion it would not be worth the time or money required to pursue a civil case.
The legal costs would exceed the $1344 amount, and even if the customer were awarded a judgment including legal costs and interest, it seems unlikely that the copywriter would be able to pay it.
A few readers suggested taking it to the police, and I do think that this suggestion has merit. The copywriter was doing business in Houston, Texas, so a case could be filed with a local jurisdiction. Again, I don’t have any legal expertise, but based on what I’ve seen I think the customer may have enough evidence for a criminal fraud case.
Additionally, I discovered that there are several other people who are claiming similar problems with the same copywriter over the past couple of years. Those within the statute of limitations could potentially be added to the case as additional victims.
Some readers suggested that I get in touch with the copywriter to intervene in the situation. I liked this suggestion, and I tried hard to get in touch with him.
I emailed every known email address of the copywriter, I found him on Facebook and sent him a message, I left him a voicemail, and I even did some additional sleuthing and ran a background report on him in attempt to get contact information.
I was polite in my communication, and I even offered the opportunity for the copywriter to correct the situation, tell his side of the story, and potentially save his reputation.
Unfortunately I never heard back from him. I could have gone another step and contacted his relatives since I have their contact information too, but I felt that it would be inappropriate for me to cross that line in this situation. If the customer wanted to do that in his attempt to recover his money, that would be his prerogative.
Of course it’s possible that the copywriter was unable to respond due to extreme circumstances like injury, death, or even a month-long vacation off the grid. However, I believe those are unlikely scenarios considering the copywriter’s history.
In my research I found that he has allegedly treated other customers similarly in the past. He communicates with them in the beginning, but when things go south he cuts off the communication. Here is a thread in the Warrior forum evidencing a couple of disgruntled customers who stopped receiving communication from him.
Now he has done the same thing to me too. When he was trying to get me to recommend his service to my subscribers, he emailed me several times and even called my home phone number a few times.
At the time I thought… wow, this guy is really on top of things. In retrospect I see a pattern that is typical of someone who is either a con-artist or has some serious personal problems and was starved for cash.
Another example of Nicholas’ “hit and run” style was his NoLimitCopy membership that he launched last year. He signed up members who paid $97/month for “unlimited” sales letters. Nicholas claimed to have a team of writers working for him, but in his “confession” in the Warrior Forum, he implies that he was doing all the work himself and quickly got burned out.
Nicholas then reportedly turned around and sold that membership site to another individual for $10,000, claiming that the site was bringing in $10,000 per month. According to the new site owner (who communicated with me on the condition of anonymity), he did not realize that he was in fact acquiring a collection of disgruntled customers who had not received the copywriting service for which they had paid.
Due to the toxicity of the situation, the new owner issued many refunds, and shut down the site, effectively losing his entire investment.
In spite of all this, the offer I made to Nicholas in my communications still stands. If he is willing to correct the situation, I’m willing to post his side of the story here on my blog… and I won’t even critique it.
Some readers thought I was being too harsh by potentially damaging the copywriter’s credibility. I contend that he damaged his own credibility.
In the previous blog post, I remained objective and did not attack the copywriter’s character at all. I presented the facts, and asked for input.
Today, on the other hand, I am calling his character into question. It’s a gut-wrenching thing for me to do, but I think it’s the right thing to do. Honestly, I hate blogs that “bash” people and drag their names through the mud. I’m not into that, and if you know me then you’ll know that’s not what I’m doing here.
A few readers felt I was being insensitive to the customer/victim by blogging about the situation. I can certainly understand that sentiment, and I’d be asking the same question.
In this case you just need to know that the customer was aware that I was going to write the article. He was OK with it, and he was grateful for the opportunity to publicize his injustice.
He was also very happy with my attempt to intervene in the situation.
Several people said I should “go with my gut”. Not a bad suggestion. For those who were intuitive enough to see that my conscience was bothering me, you’re right. I wouldn’t have blogged about it if I didn’t care.
On the one hand, emotions can make this kind of thing tricky, which is part of why I wanted to get some additional opinions on the matter. On the other hand, I do have a moral conscience that guides me, and ultimately I think I did go with my gut.
A minority of people said I should pay the refund, and their reasons were mixed.
Some said I should pay my commission to the customer, but in this situation I did not receive a commission from the copywriter.
Others said I should pay a percentage of the refund to the customer (suggestions of 10%, 33%, 50%, or perhaps an amount equal to the commission that I SHOULD have earned).
A couple of people thought I had a moral obligation to pay the full refund, citing that my recommendation was the sole basis of the buyer’s decision.
Others thought that I should pay it simply because I CAN afford it. They assumed that I am wealthier than the customer I referred, and therefore I should happily transfer some of my wealth to him.
Yet others said I should give the refund because of the positive PR it would bring me, and the goodwill that it would generate with my subscribers.
A good number of people said I should provide some other method of compensation.
Some said I should write the sales letter myself, since I know how to write sales copy.
Others said I should hire a copywriter to finish the job.
Yet others said I should provide some free coaching or give a bunch of my own products to the customer.
All very intriguing possibilities.
So you want to know what I decided?
The first thing I decided is that I want to make two things abundantly clear for the future:
1) I am not liable for your results or experience that occurs as a result of anything/anyone I recommend. Always proceed at your own risk.
2) I DO stand behind my recommendations. While I can’t be held liable for someone else’s poor service, I also will not tolerate my subscribers getting ripped off.
If you believe you have been the victim of a rip-off or scam as a result of my recommendation, I want to know about it. To the extent that I am reasonably able, I will try to get in touch with the other party to help you get the product, or get your refund.
You still need to go through the normal channels first (contact their support, request refund, etc.). But if all else fails, let me know and I’ll see what I can do. I’m not making any promises, but I’ll definitely see what I can do on a case-by-case basis. And hopefully there won’t be any more of THIS kind of case, because I’m going to be even more careful about what I recommend.
As I mentioned, I diligently tried to get in touch with the copywriter and was unable. So under normal circumstances, there’s probably not much else I would do in this situation.
However, I felt it was warranted to do something extra for this customer since I did turn his unfortunate situation into a nice case study on my blog!
So I got in touch with a copywriter named Paul Hooper-Kelly, who seems to have a stellar reputation and came recommended to me by my friend Jeremy Gislason.
Paul has pulled off some great successes for Jeremy - as well as other internet marketing top guns in a wide variety of niches - with conversion rates as high as 12.5% and sales well in excess of a million dollars from a single sales letter.
With this kind of success to his credit, Paul doesn’t work cheap. But if you’ve ever had a truly great sales letter written, you’ll understand that paying good money for high quality sales copy is actually more “affordable” than hiring a “cheap” copywriter.
After all, the true measure of a sales letter is how well it converts, and a good-converting sales letter can pay for itself quickly.
If Nicholas Cole isn’t a con-artist, at the very least he can be faulted for charging too little for his sales letters.
That means something has to give.
Researching the market, understanding the product, and making that vital connection between the two is often overlooked by “cheap” writers– so the sales letter lacks the magic that makes it convert.
Or (as may have happened in this case) the writer is overwhelmed with work because he’s offering “bargain” prices– so he never delivers.
Being closely involved in the copywriting business, Paul knew this wasn’t the first time Nicholas Cole had upset customers, bringing the copywriting profession into disrepute.
So, to prove not all copywriters are the same, Paul has agreed to write this reader’s unfinished sales letters on a pro bono basis!
So at this point, the problem is solved for the customer. And if Nicholas Cole ever comes around, he owes Paul Hooper-Kelly… big time!
After inspecting Paul’s work and examining his credentials, I’ve also decided to recommend Paul in the gap that was left due to my “unendorsement” of Nicholas. I’m confident, from what I’ve heard from his happy clients, that he won’t be letting my readers down.
So, I’ve arranged for Paul to set up a special area on his site - accessible only by Eric’s Tips readers - where you can enjoy Paul’s world class copywriting for a much lower price than the general public pays for it (His normal price for a sales letter is $7500, but Eric’s Tips readers can save thousands of dollars. Other services are available too.)
So don’t order any services from his open pages. Instead, submit a ticket to my helpdesk if you’re serious about hiring a top-notch copywriter, and we’ll give you a secret link to check it out.
Now in case you’re wondering…
NO this whole thing was not some sort of publicity stunt so that I could recommend another copywriter. It just worked out this way, and I think it’s a good outcome for everyone.
Thanks again for all your input, and as always… you are welcome to leave your comments below.
Have a great day!
Eric,
I couldn’t agree with you more on your decision. Your conclusion on the matter seems more than fair and as usual you’ve gone way beyond the call of duty compared to what most other marketers would do.It’s no wonder everyone takes your recomendations so seriously.
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Gary,
You’re back ???!!!
Hey, you were always the first to comment on Eric’s pages. But then - Long Time No See ??!! Where had you been ?
Welcome back ! Nice to see your smiling Gravatar at the top of the comments once again !
Enjoy and have a Great Day !
Reed.
Thanks for your comment Reed…lol. I’ve been busy trying to finish some projects and at the same time Eric was releasing lessons very quickly. I’m finally caught up on the lessons.
Hi Eric,
You seem to have arrived at the perfect solution!
You have solved your reader’s problem to his and your satisfaction and shown Nicholas Cole is a man to be avoided.
A Win-Win-Win (the last win for future readers of your blog!)
Well done, I’m pleased it has turned out so well for all concerned.
Eric you done a good honest job of it well done,the problem just had to be aired.
I commend you on trying (and succeeding) to help the customer. However, I’m appalled that people think YOU should pay. I don’t see that at all. I’m glad that this incident has a good ending. Thanks,
Donna
Hey Eric,
good to see someone who’s willing to bring this kind of thing out in to the light, and also able to get a helpful result for the injured party at the same time.
well done!
cheers,
Matt Garrett
Thanks Matt, and everyone else!
Well written–a good solution Eric!
Kudos to you for a great solution, and for bringing this out into the open. This willingness to openly admit to a mistake, and to come up with a creative win-win solution that pulls the whole industry up a notch is a great recommendation for anything you choose to endorse in the future. I for one will pay a bit more attention to your email from now on.
Thank you,
Robert
Sounds like you have been very fair and satisfied your first customer. So a good result in the end and I believe you have come through with your reputation intact.
Good on you Eric for taking the time to sort this out. Your a big man in my books.
Eric,
Well done and hats off to you for taking this level of responsibility. In reading your post, I realize that I probably would have acted in similar fashion. It’s a win for the client, it certainly shows your integrity, and it leaves the door cracked a little for the offender to recant and come to his senses (not that he will).
Again, I commend you. As a copywriter and marketer myself, I’m always concerned about how we are perceived. Now I can point to your example if someone tries to generalize in a negative way about those of use who do business on the Internet.
Thank you!
Ken “The Internet Marketing Geek” Harthun
Well done Eric.
God bless,
Wow Eric! Once again you are a shining star in the darkest of nights! I have been following you for over a year now and you always seem to be able to quickly make great decisions. I respect you very much for this one, great job brother! We love what you do!
A good via media, Eric. I hope the reader is happy– ’cause all’s well’ if it ends well!
Good solution to the problem Eric. The person who got shafted should be very happy and grateful.
Nicely Done Mate
To me you went above and beyond the call of duty. It is to your advantage and shows what a good and honest person you are.
I have always thought you were one of the “good guys” and you have now proved me right.
Glad to have you as one of my “leaders”.
Hi Eric,
I am glad things got resolved to mutual satisfaction. In the Bible it says no good deed will go unrewarded, and evil men will not prosper.
However I am totally perplexed and disgusted by the readers who suggested you were damaging Cole’s reputation.
Thanks for the heads up about Paul.
Eric is an honest man (in my experience) and excellent communicator, who does his best for everyone. So it is good that he has found the time to document this incident as a lesson for us all. Thank you Eric.
With regard to the Bible. You know what they say; never believe everything you read; it is up to all of us do our own due diligence. (As Eric has suggested.)
Good deeds often go unrewarded and evil people do prosper, despite the best efforts of a lot of people to bring them down more than just a peg or two!
The concept of decency is profound. We should all be that way but, disappointingly, some are not. But the more we watch out, and take care not to be duped, the more chance we have of not being duped. But it will happen, in spite of all the due diligence undertaken.
As they say, caveat emptor! (And I have been caught in the noose a lot more than once, and that is my fault). No one else need take responsibility for mistakes, except ourselves.
My advice, for what it is worth; do not rely on anyone but yourself, and certainly do not believe in everything you read in the Bible. After all it tells you that the earth was built in seven days, and we have only had the planet for around six thousand years to play on!
Good business practice has nothing to do with any religious text, so do not rely on it. Rely only on yourself! That way you will make progress and, eventually, get your due reward.
Stop thanking God, and thank people like Eric for his effort to help us all to make more of our lives and to prosper.
Eric,
Thank God and congratulations on finding an equalitiable solution. Personally I think you did too much for this guy. However, as long as you’re happy, the reader is happy and the copywritter is happy, I can find no fault in what was done.
I say it again. It is my money, if I get burned, it is my fault.
With this behind us, I look forward to more lessons about internet marketing.
Keep up the good work!!!
God Bless,
Nic Cramer
Hey Eric!
Excellent resolution to an very unhappy situation. I think it was a great idea to post this problem on your blog and get everyone’s feedback.
I’ve been following the replies to your initial post and really enjoyed hearing everyone’s input, ideas, & suggestions on how to solve the problem. This solution is probably more than anyone expected for an outcome.
I think you went above and beyond what the majority of marketers would have done in a similar situation in trying to help resolve the problem. Keep up the great work!
Mike
I am impressed, Eric,
Being a firm believer in ethics, and also have created courses for professionals on ethics, you have handled this situation very well and brought an important issue to the forefront of the IM industry. Making blind recommendations without really knowing who or what a person is recommending, can become a very touchy issue - brand/image damaging to the person making that recommendation.
It was interesting to read some of the comments as it displayed the diversity of thought within the IM industry.
“It is what you learn after you know it all that counts” - John Wooden (just passed away yesterday, June 4th, at 99 yrs old).
“Being a firm believer in ethics, and also have created courses for professionals on ethics, you have handled this situation very well and brought an important issue to the forefront of the IM industry.”
Cool - thanks!
Eric,
You are a first class act.
Stacy
Eric,
You did the right thing and helped as you could. Paul is helping you as well in this situation, so that should close up this issue.
and again…sometimes we learn more by failures than successes……
This is how to create a world-class image … turn a negative into a positive with creative passion to do the right thing. Well done Eric!
Hi Eric,
I have read the above post and I still don’t believe it was up to you to do anything - I couldn’t believe alot of people still wanted you to either pay half or offer your services,etc….BUT, like the TRUE CHAMPION you are you have managed to come to a conclusion and yet still offer to remedy the situation as best as you can. As for the publicity stunt (as put by others) that is absolutely ridiculous..you don’t need any publicity - you are a man of high standards in my eyes and the Internet Marketing field, you are also a talented marketer true to your word and if it wasn’t for your kindness and your offerings to help others out we would all be paying alot of money for what you give out for Free..Keep up the good work Eric, I will still RECOMMEND you HIGHLY to others. Theres no need to wish you the best, as you are the BEST! Karenxxx
Nicely done, Eric. You were able to get a great blog post series out of it in the process, AND strike up a new and likely profitable partnership. Pay attention and learn, fellow readers, from a perfect example of how to turn a negative situation into a winner. What I find interesting is that no one of us commenters –if i’m wrong correct me– made such a suggestion as Eric came up with as a solution. Why? That might be indicative of why either Eric is so successful and we’re not, or why being successful like him gives him time to really consider and pursue such creative/profitable solutions.
I think the original customer was out of line for requesting the refund from Eric in the first place, and should be ashamed. Though I can see if i lost $1300, i might be willing to try anything. But again, that ‘anything for money’ mentality is what caused the problem in the first place.
Epic Traffic Systems big bonus
Way to Go Eric! Good decision.
I think I want to learn how to copywrite!
But I also think you did the right thing, and this is an awesome opportunity for Paul as well.
In the end its all about networking !
Deb
Hi Eric,
Truly amazing–couldn’t have worked out better!
Well done and God Bless
Philip
I was a Regional Service Manager for a car manufacturer. I am sure you can imagine, people with their cars (especially if it is not working properly) can become quite irate and often times very unreasonable. A person who functions in this Regional Manager capacity, like me, for a long time becomes an expert in complaint resolution. The car business is driven by customer satisfaction these days so coming up with the most fair solution to any given problem is paramount. I can glean two things from this writing of yours. First, you used this as a learning experience and took the time to assemble all the available information you could before coming up with your answer. This is quite admirable. Second, you simply could not have come up with a better solution for everyone involved by my way of thinking. You have gained knowledge from this whole scenario. Your customer (an upset rather unreasonable customer expecting you to pay) has got a fantastic solution. And the bad boy copywriter; well let’s just say, he is going to get what’s coming to him one way or another; time will take care of that. Great job Eric!
Eric;
I started to respond to the original post about this situation due to the fact that I had been through a scam not that long ago. The difference was, the scam involved a high profile speaker and author whom I admire. The problem was, that response would have been a book. I will also tell you, you went beyond your responsibility.
I am happy that this situation turned out like it did. I applaud not only your efforts to resolve the matter for one of your customers, I applaud Paul Hooper-Kelly as well for stepping into the hornets nest and taking a chance to correct someone elses short comings.
I strongly encourage the customer to pursue all legal avenues. I can speak from personal experience, it takes time but it works.
Great job resolving this.
“I applaud Paul Hooper-Kelly as well for stepping into the hornets nest and taking a chance to correct someone elses short comings.”
Absolutely!
Hi Eric:
Thanks for the follow-up with this case. It is great to see that you intervened and the problem was solved for your reader/customer.
Regarding: The buyer was responsible for not exercising his own due diligence -
Could you advise the best source or way to conduct a research to see if a person is credible or a program is worth dealing with?
Thanks,
Kathleen
Copywriting is definitely something I need to get better at !
More words of wisdom Eric, as usual !
Eric -
You’ve just demonstrated the importance &
the value of “customer service”. Also, I believe
your action(s) indicate your commitment to
REALLY helping people is greater than “devotion
to dollars”. That quality is not very easy to find
in the Internet marketing “neighborhood”.
“What goes around, comes around”, & your
“good karma” account just got bigger.
Thanks for being one of the few “good guys”!
Hi Eric! You did the right thing and I’m sure that this was a gut wrenching experience for you and the client. The part of the story that should have people pay attention is the fact that the copywriter called and emailed constantly so you would promote him to your list. I had a similar experience with a company called PaySystems - a 3rd part payment system like 2CO or PayPal - many years ago. They called me for weeks asking me to use them more in my business. At the time I was selling about $15,000 a week through PayPal. They lowered my rate and fees to entice me to run more business through them. About 7-8 days after I switched my payment methods to use them they suddenly stopped paying me and thousands of other merchants who used them! I called, I threatened them and got nowhere. I lost a lot of money and realized later that they knew they were closing and were trying anything to get money. Lesson learned- if the other party is really desperate to do business with you they are probably hiding something - and it’s not something good.
“if the other party is really desperate to do business with you they are probably hiding something”
That’s exactly right Dave. In retrospect, I recognize it as a “pattern” that I’ve seen used by various scammers. I wish I had caught it sooner.
Eric, you are to be commended for coming up with a very generous solution. But I am deeply disturbed by those who thought you OUGHT to refund the customer’s money from your own pocket. Since the end of WWII we seem to have raised 3 generations to believe no one has to take responsibility for his own actions, that when something goes wrong it is ALWAYS someone else’s fault, and therefore somebody else should pay. Does no one believe in taking individual responsibility any more?
Eric:
I think you have handled this in the best way possible. Nicholas Cole will not be able to swindle anyone who has read this, and that ius how it should be. On the other hand, you have enhanced your reputation as someone who cares and will go the extra mile.
Hi Eric
Well done. It’s good to see you took the time to sort it out for him.
I hope he’s happy for all you have done for him.
great work Eric.
Victor
Caveat Emptor!
What BP has caused to the world’s ecological system with untold damages than can only be guesstimated and our losses only minimally recovered there has also been, and will always be, as devastating an oil layered over the internet.
Snakeoil has been marketed and sold in the marketing channels of ecommerce in gallons and profit that likely would match BP the past decade.
Early Social Security forced by a heart attackeight year ago brought me to explore deep driling of the internet myself.
Outlandish pictures of Rolls Royce in front of mansions on the shores of Hawaii graced every other site’s landing pages; doctored checks from ClickBank and PayPal and purported bank statements covered it all like today’s oil on sea gulls.
I could, and may very well, write a book on What NOT TO DO in ECommerce. Eric, Jim Cockrum of EBay book note and Paul Meyer of EBiz are my stalwarts of dependability following these years averaging I’m sure 50 hours a week online and aimed at finding satisfaction in a product, blog or affiliations online to gain revenue.
Two things top my conclusions to this point. First is the BBB’s admonition that if something sounds too good to be true it probably is. The other is advice first gleaned from Paul; DO NOT
purchase any program or materials you are not positive you intend and WILL USE immediately.
Personally my online purchases remain under $500 in these 8 years. (Sorry Eric, lol.)
My extreme admiration for the way you handled the situation, and a big hand of applause for Paul, whose generous offer speaks volumes about his own character. Your professionalism and character serve as a shining example to us all.
Eric,
Bravo!
You have gone above and beyond, which is a genuine testament to your character and standards. You are a shining example to the marketing community
sincerely,
Tim Ackley
admin@timackley.com
Wow!! Eric,you are the real deal!! I completely agree with how you have handled this situation. You definitely WERE NOT liable for a recommendation given in good faith. As for Nicholas Cage, he is the epitomy of the lousy marketers that you need to be very wary of!! I am truly impressed with your integrity and committment to your readers. Nicholas Cage please pay attention!!! Debbie
This sums it all up Eric. Fair and Just.
Great job of solving the problem in a great way and teaching everyone about this situation.
Hats off to ya!
Glen Wayne
Eric! wow. You have really put alot of time into this matter. I do also believe the outcome was great. It’s alot to lear from this case. I think you solved it brilliant. Thanks for sharing!!!
The real point of my post is to say Eric has handled this situation in a truly professional and ethical manner. As for the end user, you are obviously fortunate in finally deriving your desired product. To our benevolent copywriter; you sir have enriched yourself in a manner no amount of money, (not even BP’s) could buy as has our main man, Eric.
The mention of discussion of these events in Warrior’s Forum only solidifies your credibility further.
So few dollars yet so much selection to filter in ECommerce. So little time yet so much information available, good and bad, with so much to learn about ECommerce.
This report and the BP story have something in common…our thirst to fulfill our needs. Don’t blame your local service station for the oil spill anymore than you would blame Eric for handling a request to supply a business friend a copywriter recommendation. How were either of them to know?
How valuable are these blogs from Eric? Will be forwarded to my online business friends and definitely saved for future reference by me and likely quoted numerous times.
And those other two bloggers mentioned? I still stand by them and their record as I do Eric.
Is everything I’ve post 100% truthful? So far as I know it to be.
“Will be forwarded to my online business friends and definitely saved for future reference by me and likely quoted numerous times.”
Thank you
What you did was a class act, but I wasn’t surprised because I always felt you were one of the good guys.
Very well done Eric, a brilliant solution. A great resolution for the aggrieved, a great plug for Paul, an appropriate publication of Nicholas Cole’s out-ethics to serve as a warning against trusting him and a stellar example of setting a great example. A salutary lesson to look at a person’s products before one recommends them.
Dear Eric,
Thank you for sharing this information with us all of us… This is really great news to hear for you were able to solve this situation for everyone!!! Thank you for all of the good advice and tips you have given me up to this point and time…
Good thinking Eric, you did the right thing and I’m sure most of your readers agreed with your solution, God bless
Eric, Great work for solving the situation with respect to all of us…
Http://www.trumpnetwork.com/Martinez/ThompsonProf
Very good solution
A person’s reputation is enhanced or not by the company they keep and who they recommend. What Eric has shown is the exceptional value he places on his own integrity and that of an industry he knows and loves. The lessons learned are well worth the cost of everyone involved. Thank you Eric for bringing such an interesting case study to us.
I’m not ashamed to call you my brother in Christ.
You do us all proud as believers and Internet marketers.
Eric, your conclusion seems more than fair to me. I hope we all learn from you and treat our readers along the same line. Good job.
Great response Eric! It is nice that you pursued this until a ‘higher order’ result that is congruent with your core values became available. I admire that trait. I wish you well.
Karl
Hey Eric! You are 4 aces or a king high royal flush in my book! Damage Nicolas Cole’s reputation??? He’s already done that big time himself! Everyone including theguy who got shafted should remember one thing. Never, Never ever pay upfront like this guy did. Always work a deal where you pay when the work is completed to your satisfaction or in parts as each part is completed to your satisfaction. I agree that maybe someone should pursue a fraud complaint with thwe local police. This guy should be behind bars. Good Luck, and keep up the good work! Stan
“He’s already done that big time himself!”
Is that enough amercement? What about the stolen money?
“This guy should be behind bars”
Should he? Who is interested in all circumstances of the dark side of Eric’s bright shining medal?
I have read your account of this whole scenario Eric.
I am glad that you posted it. You were very fair in your representation. You gave every benefit of doubt to “Nicholas” as far as the way it appears that he has handled this situation.
In my mind, here is the bottom line for all of us. Caveat emptor…”Let the buyer beware”.
I just got burned by my air conditioning company. Fault…mine. I should have done a better job of screening my choice of vendors. I certainly wouldn’t blame the person who told me they had great service.
Over time it’s bound to happen to all of us…we will end up with the short end of the stick from time to time.
One last cleche for any who reads my words. But oh, so true.
“Choose your battles wisely”.
Of all the tips you’ve given, your own example here is one of the best tips I’ve gotten anywhere. It shows that in the end, integrity wins. That scamming copywriter can change his identity all he likes, but he’ll never build up a steady, long term following the way you have. I just turned down a writing assignment for an obvious scammer and although I need the money, it really felt good to say no. Now I’ve just got to start applying more of your tips to my own website and blog and maybe in time I won’t even have to be tempted anymore! Thank you for a great service.
I believe that you have taken all the appropriate action that an RESPONSIBLE owner of a business could do based on the situation. I personally read the Warrior Forum thread you referenced in the post last night and I was amazed how Nicholas accepted responsibility for his actions. I know that now his business will hurt as a result of this and other fiasco but hopefully all will be well with him.
Such a stellar solution you came up with Eric - Bravo! Thank you for being an ezxample in the IM, and sharing the story, and for caring for your customers!
Glad to see this matter has reached a happy conclusion. I’ve been waiting with anticipation for the outcome.
What a good idea putting it to your forum jury for their views and you did a good fair job in delivering the “sentance”.
Justice has been served.
Court Ajourned.
Eric, as always you are a man of integrity, honesty and compassion. Great solution.
(I just read this for the first time and have not read any of the comments.) Have you considered putting up a site that’s search engine optimized with his name? Put everyone’s story there with comments enabled. Then if he wants to make things right, he can post. With the internet the way it is, there’s no reason anyone should be able to get away with something like this. Post his facebook profile and twitter and website, the whole nine yards. If he wants to be successful, he’ll have to come clean! By the way, your solution was brilliant. I just hate to see anyone get robbed who doesn’t have to be.
Eric,
You have again have gone above and beyond. And, the copywriter Paul Hooper-Kelly just locked in some great pr for being generous with his offer. This customer should be thanking you both like no tomorrow for what is getting. You and Jeremy are good examples of what it takes to be long term marketers.
I joined Eric’s Tips 3/27/2006 and have been in Jeremy Gislason’s surefirewealth.com since 4/10/05
p.s. The links on the welcome emails from both of you still are active another sign of a long term business.
“I joined Eric’s Tips 3/27/2006″
Thanks for being a valued long-time subscriber
Eric - u da man - I really loved the way you settled this!
I applaud the way you handled this situation. And I especially appreciate your bringing this out into the open so we could all benefit. Integrity and ethical behavior is everything on the NET. With this discussion, you have given a refresher course on several issues that really matter when one is building an internet business. Thanks again for your shining example.
Eric, I have not had time to review, nor do I want to, all the things involved with your statements, but lets see what happens with the person who is suing Google because they recommended that walking area in which a lady was hurt. (In the national news on TV sometime in the last few days but I really only heard what I saw(:-] ) (It may be on point to this matter, or not) (Will it ever end?) I think you are doing the right thing, however, but the venue, wording of your writings and the law (and a bunch of other things) often step in to make things a whole lot different than what they oughta be. After 43 years handling insurance claims litigation in the millions of dollar range, who knows!!. I am retired from that sort of thing now and that’s why I have little interest in researching it, anyway.
Just think your solution for this is interesting and prudent and good business. WAY TO GO! Someone will probably disagree with my rant here, but personally I don’t care, cause if you have done something like you did here and you feel good about it and your readers/customers also do, than it’s great!!!
Eric,
I respect what you did, it is more than enough.
Thanks
Good on you, Eric
The only way to go in the long term is the honest way. I’ll bet you sleep well at night
Eric,
You’re top notch and have integrity.
That’s hard to find these days.
That’s why I follow you!
Sharon
Well done sir,
The cynic in me says that you may hear this kind of inquery again, despite your fresh disclaimer. I hope not. Perhaps your new relationship with Mr.H-K opens an interesting new insight into services availible to IM.
Thanks again…
Perfect solution! I just learned something myself!
Hey Eric, Nicely done…I heard of a fella named Solomon who made some noteworthy decisions a while back, I wouldn’t call you his equal but I wholly respect your decision in this one, The man who got ripped off may still have the option of small claims court,
with a minimum of cost (filing fee, registered letter) he may get this scammer before a real judge, canceled checks, or paypal reciepts would be good evidence, worth a shot…Bob
Eric:
Very well done explanation and analysis of this unfortunate situation! I believe this happens more often than we choose to believe, not just in the copy writing arena. The old adage “caveat emptor” or “buyer beware” is very appropriate here; one must do their own due diligence before proceeding with any endeavor, especially when an investment is involved. Your recommendation was made in good faith and unfortunately turned sour for your reader, however such is life and these types of things will happen, just the way it is! I applaud you for your sincere feelings for those that trust in your knowledge and recommendations, and I also admire that you asked your readers for advice! Thanks for being “REAL”!
Eric,
I am happy to hear that you were able to come up with a solution to this issue. Though even now the term “Buyer Beware” still rings through my mind when I think of the situation. You have proved your devotion to your word and your own ethics (which seem to be lacking in all industries). Your honesty and integrity is what keeps me reading your posts, and recommending your site to everyone interested in starting an internet business. Don’t ever change. Thanks for showing that not all Internet Marketers are scammers and thieves (which is what my own mother accused me of when I told her I was starting an online business, she has been proven wrong since).
Keep up the Good Works
Eric - you’ve handled that brilliantly - very fair and ethical to all concerned, helping to protect your customers (past, present & future), accepting responsibility for your recommendations but not for the outcomes (which would not be honoring the free will of others to make their own decisions), and taking action which will be a win for all except Nicholas Cole (and may in the end be a win for him, since people should not get away with fraud, especially when it becomes a repeated pattern of behaviour!)
You’ve also got at least one reader (but I suspect many more!) who has marked you as worth following in future, as standing out above the general internet marketer & their barrage of deletable emails…..
I have been following this story with interest because I was scammed for $15,000 over 2 years ago. Like you Eric, I have a strong sense of fairness and ethics and I set about researching and reporting my story on the internet. Unfortunately I was a newbie and did not have a profile and the scammer laughed at me when I warned him of my intention to expose him.
Consequently, I built a blog and a list of 80 victims (a mere tip of the iceberg) some of whom had been scammed for over $80,000. The total scammed from just the people on my list was over $1million.
I reported this “Sharketer” to every authority I could find & eventually got the attention of the FBI, who appointed the LAPD fraud squad to investigate. Even Fox News contacted me to do a story.
I kept emailing the scammer to keep him informed of each of my actions. He bullied me and started to retaliate online, smearing my name also, calling ME a scammer. But I did not relent. His reputation took a severe battering, from me and the many other victims on my list. Never overlook the power of social media. (I posted about this recently on my blog)
To shut me up, the scammer eventually paid me plus, because I had hired a great lawyer, extra for damages. I will continue to encourage scam victims to never give up. I wrote an ebook that I am happy to donate to any scam victim who wants to know the steps to getting their money back.
Due to a loophole in the law, the scammer is still scamming! Authorities cannot arrest him because he got signatures from his victims under false pretenses. I still receive emails from people who found my old reports on various forums and complaint sites.
Eric, I applaud you for what you have done for the victim of the copy scam. Yes, expose the “Sharketers” of this world. Bring on “Trial by Social Media”. Sharketers have no place on the internet and they will not survive. Honesty has always been the best policy.
What you have done, Eric, has not only helped that victim and warned the world about the copy Sharketer, but you have won the hearts of your devoted fans and gained possibly thousands more followers.
You are the living proof that to be successful, one should be transparent and have a penchant for helping others.
I speak for all of the above who followed and commented on this topic. We love and respect you Eric. Your ethics are beyond reproach.
(Sidenote. If anyone would like a free copy of the ebook “Sharketer!”, please contact Eric.)
I would love a copy of Gails ebook - Sharketer! BTW, she has a very nice looking website - I hope others will visit.
You have done a good thing Eric - you have done much more than exposed a dishonest copywriter and helped a customer. You have provided a forum where honest people can be introduced to other honest people. We still must be cautious, even here, but you have done a good thing. Thanks!
Hey Eric,
I think you did the right thing (I would not expect anything else. I used Nicholas for a sales letter as well and he did deliver, but that was some time ago. I also hired him to do a PR for me as part of another of his promotions and he flaked out. Can’t recall if I paid him or not. He came recommended by a well known IM person as well. I never held it against the person who recommended him.
Although I don’t feel you are in any way liable, you handled a sticky situation with grace and honor.
Brilliant!
The perfect hybrid.
Almost biblical
And totally marketable.
Julia
Great job Eric! There should be more people on earth that care as you do. Find the problem fix it and you will be on top. Thank you for letting me know what the out come of this event was. Have a great day and keep up the positive out look on your life’s work. JB
Thank you, Eric, for allowing the WISDOM OF GOD to flow through you. You flew the flag high as a marketer who honours Jesus Christ.
Cole doesn’t mind about his own reputation,Why
should you?
Congratulatios!
You do help Internet Business to be clean!!!
Thanks for the informative sharing. I believe it would help a lot of people to think through when faced with situation like this or closely similar.
Regards.
Hi Eric
I’m so glad you were able to find a win-win-win solution to this situation. I think in the process we have all learned many lessons, but the most important one is that when there is a will there is a way… and you have indeed found it, a solution that is fair and just for everyone.
Congratulations on being willing to “take the bull by the horn” and look for this type of solution.
Marcelle
Hi Eric,
You are indeed “THE BEST” — your solution as well as resolution of this whole issue goes way beyond what anyone’s expectations could be, would be or should be. As for Paul Hooper-Kelly, his name is one we would all benefit from knowing, and I thank you for that and for everything you do. You are the best, that’s for sure
Hi, you did an amazing job here. I will be following your work and expertise closer then ever.
thanks
Cheers everyone
Wilf
In the State of California, my brother-in-law recommended a photographer to a friend. The deal went south when the photographer did not deliver. It went to court and my brother-in-law had to pay five thousand bucks just for the recommendation - and all three of these guys were friends. They are not friends now.
Bill
Very good solution to a sticky problem. You are an excellent mediator.
Personally, am not at all happy with the solution. I really really think you should contact the police too. At least if you have any sort of consumer courts in the US, you can probably file a complaint with a simple handwritten letter - anybody can do it. Filing a police complaint isn’t that difficult either.
Clearly the guy is a remorseless lowlife con-artist. I would so hate to see him go scotch-free. Otherwise it will be a sad ending for me.
Especially because something similar has happened to me in the past and I feel so enraged every time I think about it. These guys literally taunt and mock you knowing there’s not much you can do.
@ Gail Fay, I am sorry he got away from the authorities but kudos to you for getting justice on your own. You a hero in my book.
“To whom much is given, much is expected.” And you, sir, have certainly done much! If you don’t have much, I expect you certainly will…
of course, that does depend on your definition of “MUCH”
Eric,
I truly believe you went above and beyond the call of duty in resolving this case.
Congratulations, all the way around.
Victor Winebrenner
Caretaker Extraordinaire
Hi Eric,
That is the best possible outcome, and then a whole lot more.
Have fun,
Mike
#1 I would not trust PayPal in any way shape or form. They screwed me too to the tune of $4000 plus. They do not stand behind their customers. There is an FBI internet fraud division to file with but I found that was a waste of time since I have never heard from them either. I didn’t even get a case number.
So it is a matter of if you do monetary business on the internet, CHECK OUT THE PERSON/COMPANY FIRST or have a good supply of oars because you will be wearing them out! I applaud you Eric for helping your reader find a solution. You are one of the few on the net to be trusted. Thanks Eric for being a standup guy.
My long-time derived formula hardly fail in choosing the best Internet Marketer gurus!
When this issue started, I had been wondering, how is it going to end? In fact, what a perfect conclusion! This is nothing other than God’s Guidance to you Eric, and that is how it has always been for the honest people.
My formula that gives “Eric” as answer, as the best Internet Marketing expert/teacher/guru I ever come across in my e-book remains correct and hardly could it fail ever.
What an honest Real-Life-Internet-Marketer is Eric?! See how he has handled the issue intelligently and with organizational leadership skills.
As far as I know at present, Eric is my number one leader in IM industry and others follow!
Since you acted as the liaison you followed through found a solution and corrected the situation with better results. It’s simply good business.
Results are you have a better recommendation
Your followers know you back up what you say
And Paul Hooper Kelly has now become a name synonymous with ethical business practices.
You did the right thing now you and your conscience will sleep well!
Very Well Done Eric. Good to have it confirmed that there are still people out there who have good judgement and the ethics to match.
Integrety won!
Your’e a great man, Eric!
This worked out exactly as I expected & predicted. A great all round solution. From what I have come to know about you, I just knew you would work it out to reach the best outcome. WELL DONE
You have not advised that how to avoid this type of scam , may be due to ignorance your another reader may face same problem, so just to teach us that how to avoid them, how to locate them, which are the sincerity before going any contract or before delivering the cash through credit card or net banking , or paypal —- Sujit
I talk a little about the subject here:
http://www.ericstips.com/tips/lesson5/
The main points are:
-Be especially leery of business “opportunities”
-Be an educated consumer
It is a shame others have been ripped off, and I really feel for the person who bought the site as a going business! As for the reccomendation of the new person… Thats just what it is a reccomend.
Sweet solution, Eric!
Also, I do like the way your honesty has ended up serving not only the guy who was Nicholas Cole’s victim, but everyone else who chooses to deal as honestly as they can with their customers, including Paul Hooper-Kelly. It’s a nice reminder that truth and honest will ultimately save the day. I only wish more people would realize that, and not just in the internet marketing business!
Bless you, Eric…you’re the bomb!
What a great story, well told, and definitely the right way to go about it. nice one…
http://www.chris-gaynor.com
Eric,
Your transparency and ethics are A+++
This was a tremendously difficult situation to resolve well, and as an affiliate marketer myself, you’ve highlighted an issue which every affiliate should take heed from.
The days and nights you lost on working this through to such a good outcome will be given back to you and your family many times over, because you let your actions be shaped by your conscience and not your pocket.
Thank you so much for the tremendous example you are to the IM community; if all the Eric’s Tips subscribers follow the same standard you have set, we will transform the whole industry.
Every blessing to your family,
Dez.
What an excellent solution in my opinion! So HALF of this problem is solved. What about the other half? Very unsatisfying to leave that up to itself. “Somebody” should take care of this guy? Maybe he just turns around and opens a new scam, loughing all the way to the bank? If I was involved in this case somehow, I definitely would find out and would STOP this guy going on to fool people, maybe help him, or punish him, but STOP him! Too many scammers get away too easy on the internet. (I know especially from my experiences in the HYIP arena some years ago …)
First of all, I think the guy is an IDIOT for asking YOU for a refund and your remedy to his situation further proves that the sun does shine on a dog’s butt every now and again.
The one thing that I will take away from this is ALWAYS put a disclaimer on a recommendation. That is, IF I ever make one again after this post.
In my humble opinion, the guy that lost the $1300 will now expect everyone he does business with to hold his hand and spoon feed him to prosperity. Hopefully this is not the case. God bless.
Hi Eric,
first of all I didn’t think you were liable for the recommendation you made.But am also glad that you have made an honest decision…
I’m sure the decision you made was with Gods guidance
Beatrice
Eric - You went above and beyond and did the right thing, taking the high road, remaining professional, and addressing the issue head on. And you turned this whole bad experience into an opportunity and learning experience for everyone. Well done!
Good outcome. To make it happier still it would be good to hear that the rogue copywriter got a smack in the mouth but sadly it is not politically correct to go down that route these days. Always used to work!
Another lesson maybe for Eric and everyone, from a complete newbie, NEVER recommend or try to earn a commision from ANYTHING that you have not actually bought or tried yourself. Hearing about it being good and acting in good faith etc is just not enough to give a 100% clear conscience.
Hi Eric
I don’t think anyone else could have handled this situation better - well done.
Paul Hooper-Kelly has a great reputation and has done copywriting for many well known ‘Gurus’ so your ‘victim’ is a lucky guy to have this outcome.Full marks to Paul for ’stepping into the breech’.
Gail- I too was ’stung’ for $15K for coaching that ‘never was’ several years ago and I’m still paying for it!
Your solution is a masterpiece and that is because you are Eric. I would say you are magnanimous in making the client the king and ensuring that he is satisfied.
Keep up your good works to sustain your reputation and integrity.
Best Regards,
Godfrey.
Hey Eric,
The fact that Nicholas Cole did not respond to you to defend himself or his reputation and has a track record of dissatisfied customers, proves he is a con artist and you should put the word out about him…BIG TIME to discredit him.
E ric R eally I s C ool!!
Big up Paul Hooper Kelly!
hello sir! you know i’ve been reading this article for a quite long time but still i really did’nt understnad and want more explain that how can i earn money online, as i;m from india so pliz suggest can i do it?
Eric,
A very finely crafted solution!
One point, legal action, in the form of Small Claims Court, is not expensive…under $100 in my state. Yes, you may only get a judgment that proves noncollectable, but at least it puts one more guidepost out there for other unsuspecting potential victims.
Well done Eric,
You have handled this situation with the utmost professional and ethical solution. I applaud you on the honesty you showed by asking the opinions of those you valued most (your customers) on how they would handle the situation.
You have shown great character and class by going waaaaaaay above and beyond to help out that particular customer. I have much respect for you and your integrity. I hope that all marketers and potential marketers who have paid attention to this little soap opera have learned a thing or two here about business.
Also, I hope that everyone has seen just how negatively your business can be affected when you treat your customers poorly - as Mr. Copywriter is now finding out.
I feel bad for the original guy who got ripped off, but as I said before - that’s just business. You will have losses in business and you aren’t always going to get a refund, guarantee or get what you paid for. Write it off as a loss and move on.
Take FULL RESPONSIBILITY for your actions and don’t whine and cry and blame someone else when something doesn’t work out.
Learn from your loss and take action to mitigate the possibility of it happening again in the future.
Again, great job Eric.
Hi Eric,
I was really wondering how on earth you were going to solve this sticky toffee!!!! This is a great solution. I’m sorry for the customer who has been scammed (haven’t we all) but I agree wholeheartedly about you not being responsible for a refund. And yes, you’ve done way more than what was expected of you. That was the best solution for all. Oh, and thanx for giving us the name of the scammer. If you didn’t write about this, who knows how many other people would have fallen for this. Keep up the good work!
Eric your moral compass guided you to what I feel is the best possible outcome for everyone. Practicing what you preach does not happen often enough in today’s fast paced society.
I expected nothing less from you, Eric.
As I continue to explore and discover what is possible, I pray that the leadership, grace and undersanding you have shown in this situation will also shown in mine. My God continue to bless you, your famly, your work and your ministry.
I don’t normally comment very often, but I have been following this situation very closely, because I have been scammed a couple of times over the last 6 years since I started doing Internet Marketing. The most expensive one was for $3500 ($US), yes being a Canadian, when our dollar was at $0.67 to the US$, it was a very painful lesson. I nealy Internet Marketing out of anger and disgust. It certainly made me a very critical and suspicious of Internet Marketers. As a result I started looking for the “Real IM Leaders and Gurus” and I found Joel Comm, Eric and others. A lot of very high quality and high integrity people. I signed up with Eric’s Tips and I have been very impressed with his quality and integrity. Eric, you had no liability … but you cared enough about your client to set things straight. There is no way you should pay for another internet marketer’s lack of integrity. Integrity is what makes people become, not just good, but great people. GREAT JOB ERIC!!!
Now that’s going over and above the call of duty. I hope you are amply rewarded for your efforts, even if it’s just feeling good about the outcome.
Cool Eric,
This is good for the upset customer and I think it is the ‘right thing’ to do!
Cheers,
Ming Jong
Hi Eric
That sounds like an extremely acceptable solution. In fact, as someone else said, its above and beyond the call of duty in this respect!
If you are the type of person who is prepared to put themselves out to resolve this type of situation in a fair-minded and business-like manner such as this, then it makes you a cut above a lot of other Internet Marketers in the field!
I will continue to look forward to receiving your ‘Eric’s Tips’ emails with enthusiasm in the future!
best regards
Hi Eric when i made my first comment to you I didn’t know who you were referring to. I now know who he is. I also signed up for his course through your recomended link. NO WORRIES
However he speakes a lot about the Lord and good works, which he should be ashamed, he has proven himself to me. as hyprocritical. Within his course he asks If we have any queries to email him. I have sent him 3 emails and not one answer back. A Bad Example Of A Christian.
I Pray for him He needs it. God Bless You Eric
Pastor Laurence
Eric, Kudos to you and Paul Hooper Kelly! the predicament you became involved with and found a viable and “more than just solution” to just means that it should encourage all of us to stay on the up and up with our business dealings…but,remain aware that not everything is always what it seems and to be quicker on our toes to resolve issues…thanks for all your lessons…always learning, Carolina
Eric, you are my hero. I love everything you post and send me via my email. You are the best there is!
You did what I thought you would do - come up with an answer that incorporated the best of the options available to you. The entire thing is also a good teaching tool for us. Best of luck to you Eric.
Bob Cannon
Eric you have shown again that you are an upright person. I commend you and Paul for your efforts to satisfy the customer.
Well Done Eric!
This type of unfortunate behavior by less-than-honest people happens all to frequently, and happens in other fields too (construction is notorious).
My concern now is for YOU - you seem to be sticking your neck out again with this new copywriter. Even though this new person seems to be excellent TODAY, we never know what can happen in the future.
My suggestion is to continue to recommend those that you feel will do a great job, but next to that recommendation put a HUGE disclaimer. You might even date the recommendation so people will have a time reference.
Best wishes to you for being an honorable marketer and person!
“you seem to be sticking your neck out again with this new copywriter. Even though this new person seems to be excellent TODAY, we never know what can happen in the future.”
You’re absolutely right. But an important part of doing business is taking risks.
But your disclaimer idea is a good one!
Hi Eric,
A couple of remarks….
1. He had your home phone number, you even had his relative’s phone number and that says a lot about your relationship with this person. However he committed the fraud not you. You are responsible in some way more so if you took commission as a result of recommending his services.
2. I purchased from you a couple of years back PLR Rights to your “Affiliate Video Brander” paid $127 for it and because of my HD crash and moved my server I lost all files. I emailed you on every email and support I knew but no reply. Now you have a chance to rectify that and send me the download page. Send me an email and let me know. I do not have the receipt but have the email address I purchased with and other data for you to verify. Thank you.
1) Well the only reason I knew about his relatives is because I did some extensive “sleuthing” in my effort to get in touch with him.
2) Sure just submit a ticket to my helpdesk and we should be able to help you out with that.
Hi Eric,
A very good solution, resulting from your good intentions and honest efforts to put this situation right. Thank you for sharing this with us, best wishes.
Audrey
Hi Eric,
Great blog you’ve got here. You may have already covered this but as a Christian I would have thought prayer would have been the first thing to do.
I often try and nut out problems myself until my wife often asks “have you prayed about it.”
Keep up the good work.
-Nick
You are correct, and I did. As a business blog, I try to keep it fairly religion-neutral, because I have readers of many faiths. Our wives have wisdom, don’t they?
Yes they do. Don’t you hate it when they point out the obvious?
Keep being a great light…you’re doing awesome.
So it’s not just my imagination that all us blokes are the same then
(Independent-minded, take action etc)…my wife often asks me the same question 
It’s not without good reason that the female brain is so differently wired
Dez.
Eric, I don’t think you were liable. You did the right thing to air the problem and went beyond duty to help the poor reader.
Thanks for sharing this great lesson!
Hi Again Eric a few entries up I made my comment in regards. I stated i now knew who it was. I must claify, I was mistaken and apologise. You said his name is Nicholas Cole
I said i purchased his programme through your recomendation. It wasn’t Nicholas i purchased. Let’s just say his first name is Paul.
My Apologies to Nicholas. My mistake
Sorry Eric. Laurence
Hi Eric,
Thank you for the way you handled this unfortunate matter. All is well that ends well. The victim is at least compensated though not by the culprit.
This case serves as a warning to name and shame potential offenders and I hope marketers will now be more careful when dealing with their clients in future by working with diligence and integrity.
Eric, you are simply amazing. No one would have considered to
1. consider readers advise
2. offered to investigate beyond their company responsibility.
3. offered to resolve anything that was not the fault of their company.
You have shown more ethnic and courage than 95% of marketers.
Many already view marketers as liars, just to sell a product. You have proven this belief, wrong. You have added more than you know to my faith, that man giving the choice to do right, can and will do the right thing from our gut instict, which remove emotion and is usually right. Smart man, trust your instincts, the rest will take care of itself. (applauds)
Hi Eric,
Thank you for the way you handled this unfortunate matter. All is well that ends well. The victim is at least compensated though not by the culprit.
This case serves as a warning to name and shame potential offenders and I hope marketers will now be more careful when dealing with their clients in future by working with diligence and integrity.
I hope more victims will in future come forward and expose dishonest marketers.
I don’t understand why the fool who lost the $1344 (after contacting all the people who left testimonials praising this “copywriter”) asked YOU for a refund? On that basis, he should have asked everyone on the sales page who recommended this guy for some money. Yet, he singled YOU out for a refund? I think your solution to this guy’s problem was WAY TOO GENEROUS. I hope the next time he gets ripped off he doesn’t come running to you for a refund, or me, or anyone else reading this!
Eric,
Did you pay Paul for completing the sales letter ? Pro-bono basis ?
Pro bono means he is doing it as an act of charity.
How about compiling a list of all the cons out there ?
Nice resolution Eric. I wonder though if your customer is prepared to do the same for his customers if he ever recommends anything and receives a similar complaint/request. Let’s hope so!
Well done Eric, you’ve turned a sow’s ear into a silk purse here looking at all the positive comments from your followers. Very wise also to the check things out thoroughly we are endorsing. Great to see you accepting some responsibility.
Keep up the great work
Noel
Well done Eric i wish to shake your hand one day
God Bless
Hi Eric,
I am a true believer that everything that happens, happens for the best.
This situation exemplifies that phrase, in my humble opinion.
It amazes me that there are people out there that would allow their greed, despair, hard times, or what ever you wish to fill in here, get in the way of better judgment when running a business.
You are a true gentleman and scholar and there are very few of us left. LOL
I love your solution you found for the person getting Paul’s services and it is a great offer you have made available to your readers.
My kudos go out to Paul for stepping up to this situation and to you for having great friends you can count on in a pinch.
We all are a little bit smarter after reading this blog post and happier in the knowledge you have our best interest at heart.
Thank you,
Eric
Hi Eric
Well done.
Hi Dragutin
You Must know that alot of this type of situations never get resolve.
You owe Eric A BIG THANKS!!!!
Your subscriber made the choice to take action on your recommendation, Eric, you did not force him to, so he was solely responsible for any negative consequences. But nice that this case had such a good ending. He owes you! Di
Hello Eric,
This seems like the saying, out of evil cometh good, I think this situation has thought you and many of us, some very important lessons about people and their ways. However have a long and lasting live on the Internet marketing scene.
Butlin.
Eric,
Well done.
I approve. (Subject to the following disclaimer):
http://www.workingmom.com/terms_of_service.html
(See how easy that was?)
It looks like you laid the matter to rest in an amicable manner.
I personally did not see what the fuss was about at the beginning. It was a clear cut case in your favor. However, it turned out well for a few people. The publicity received by various individuals was tremendous. (I know you did not plan it like that - or did you??)
I am really proud of you Eric. You did not take the cowards way out by saying it was not your problem. Gives me hope that the IM scene still have some good people with a heart for customers and sense of right and wrong.
While everyone who comments is entitled to their opinions, I still think that anything short of what you did is simply mean spirited and not aligned to good business practice. Read, they need to work on their people skills.
People just want what they pay for, recommendations are a form of endorsement. If the government does not look lightly on these things (you can thank the FTC for this one marketers) then why should we or our customers?
It invites yet more unwanted intervention by The Man when we follow what some have said here. THAT is Always a poor choice IMO.
Eric, you’ve always been the classiest IMer out there, and I think you’re handling this correctly. Paying out of your pocket would set a dangerous precedent, and I agree you should not.
Regarding legal action, the best thing to do is find out if this is considered “small claims” but the Houston jurisdiction this copywriter operates out of. If it is, a legal case could be waged pretty cheaply. If on the other hand it qualifies as a larceny, then the best thing to do is inform the Houston authorities.
Cheers,
Frank
Thank you so much Eric for the way you have handled this case. Your honesty, and a heart to help is worth emulating, I’m really touched.
I didn’t find the victim’s comment on your solution, but I’m sure he will be satisfied with what you have provided for him. This solution doesn’t only restore his investment in his business, it also provided him opportunity to get even better job done from Paul, and restored his trust in the industry.
For Nicholas Cole, it’s a pity that he would allow greed, impatience, love for money, or whatever it is to damage the golden opportunity he had to build a multimillion dollars business - what a huge waste!
Hi Eric
Well done. You arrived at a totally satisfactory solution.
And a very important point has be made.
You have come up with a great solution, Eric. Hope other marketers will take a cue from the way you have treated this matter.
While this falls short of my recommendation of a refund, the alternative is actually better for everyone. Brilliant choice. Thinking outside of the box keeps you on top. You remain the only internet marketer with access to my inbox, because the bottom line is : I STILL TRUST YOU !
Wow, that was an awesome ending
Hi Eric,
Great solution to a messy problem. I kept on reading and secretly hoping that you would not give in and refund the money yourself.
This Paul must be quite the guy to step up and help out in such a dreadful situation.
Take care,
Jeanette
I think your solution was perfect.
Eric,
While the end result is positive for all, the one thing that has not been mentioned is that you need to complete your due diligence when making recommendations, you owe it to your readers. Alas I’m sure the lesson has been learned.
Very adeptly handled, kudos to you.
Hi Eric, You have honestly tried your best to solve your readers problem. you are no way responsible for any more. I love your attitude
really
Hello Eric,
Thank you for this great, real-life lesson and a solid copy-writer recommendation.
So many times, when problems like this arise, I agonize over it and usually end up giving more than I really feel I should, just to make the problem go away. I usually feel beaten up, used and resentful, but I chalk it up to trying to run a moral, conscientious business — and that IS worth a lot to me.
Thank you for showing how a true professional worked trough a dilemma such as this. Although you solved the problem in a way I probably couldn’t (I don’t have contacts like yours), I like your approach and attitude: you put in the time and effort to help the customer while not compromising your values or your own belief that you were not liable. It sounds like the outcome might serve you well: a happy, satisfied customer/reader, 2 great blog posts with tons of comments, an alternate, stellar recommendation with a discount for your students and (?) even greater commission potential for you. Good on you!
Eric;
I realize I’m late to this discussion but after reading a number of the responses along with parts one and two of your post I feel there may be something else to add. The following is simply my opinion.
I can see two points in this issue where you may be said to have some liability.
.1 In most correspondence that I have read from you or on your system, you place yourself in the position of a teacher not a marketer. This would place your reader in the position of being a student. As a student of a teacher that they are paying to be taught how to do something, they should or at least could feel that you have responsibility for what you are telling them to do.
I did not read the initial recommendation for the copywriter but I can take a statement from one of your other recommendations and point out how the recommendation can be perceived as a statement from a teacher to a student as the correct way to do something.
Excerpt from your XSitePro recommendation:
“XSitePro intuitively helps you build your website the right way. It can actually help you grow your website on autopilot and all sorts of stuff.”
In the excerpt above you plainly state that this software will help you build your website the “right” way. The perception of the statement is certainly different from a student’s point of view than a point of view held by a prospective customer. The use of subjective words such as intuitively, right and autopilot can be said to raise some expectations in a student’s mind.
.2 Your recommendations are simply thinly veiled offers to sell.
This veil presents your responsibility and perhaps liability.
The example of one person recommending a doctor to another person has been used in this discourse. Certainly, there is a difference between someone saying, “I recommend this doctor because he did a good job for Me.” and “I know this doctor that will pay me $20 for each patient I refer to him, you should go to him.”
Your recommendations are presented like the first instance but are in reality wholly like the second instance.
I hope your readers / students realize that what is presented as a free course is really being paid for by them purchasing items from the links provided in your posts and e-mails.
Thanks for your time, and again this is just my opinion.
Bravo Eric!
I think you handled this very, very well.
WAY above the call of duty.
My comments on this are that you are not liable for the refund but you are liable for your recommendations as long as you do not include a disclaimer. So for future, use that disclaimer you wrote about any recommendations being from personal experience only and to proceed at your own risk. I would also set up another page on your blog for resources in the case of someone being scammed and in your post of recommendation, state “if you feel that you have been scammed by anyone, please check out my page on resources” and include those resources which you listed here.
My next thought is that this guy is either a smooth con-artist or he didn’t realize how overwhelming this would be. Some people think they are the greatest at everything and can handle anything that comes their way, and quickly realize that things move very quickly on the internet. I think he may have fallen behind due to taking on more than he can really handle and kept getting so much bad PR about him that he realized he’s going to be in serious financial trouble soon, so he stopped responding to people. He probably did that because he believes if he “never saw it” or “never got the message” that he can get away with it - but unfortunately for him, a class action law suit is probably already in the works.
It’s definitely not good for you to contact his family members, regardless if you found their information. They or he could ultimately sue you for harassment in that case, depending on what state they live in. Also, who knows if that background checking company is really a legal way of finding someone? Seems too risky to me.
But I gotta tell you - you were very dedicated to helping this person and that’s what you can and should have done because in this case, I feel you would be liable for at least trying to help them straighten it out.
As far as you feeling like you are bashing this person and giving them a bad rep - no. You recommended someone to your blog readers and you have every right to retract that recommendation. And the greatest part about it all is that he can’t even sue you for slander or defamation of character or anything like that because it’s a true incident that occurred…some people tend to think that they can but really, I believe it’s only when you make something up about the person that isn’t true. But, I’m no lawyer so I could be wrong.
But to summarize, if I recommended you use someone for a kitchen makeover because mine turned out marvelous, and yours doesn’t go so well…whose fault is that? Not yours. Word of mouth can only go so far…the contractor/company/worker must present their own image.
Hi Eric,
As an offshore copywriter working for somewhat lower rates than my US counterparts, I felt that Nicholas Cole did ALL of us a disservice by literally ripping off his paying customers.
It’s hard enough to get good clients in this business, especially when you’re just starting out. He on the other hand, already had something good going for him - he just had to nurture that seed of potential with hard work and strategic implementation of whatever sustainable business plans he had.
But he chose to take the loot and run away (even getting someone to take the heat for him by selling his website - what a joke!)
Hey Eric,
Sorry to say SCGM 9.0 has done nothing. I’m kinda choked. I’ve emailed, filled out tickets and get no response yet they still charge me hosting. The 800 number didn’t work in Canada. I ended up making my way to the USA for some work and tried the 800. No one answers the phone so I left a message. I haven’t even got a return call. Its not that they did a bad job - its that they didn’t even do a job and charged me over $300. I hate being scammed out of my money!! The sad thing in all this is that you were used to refer clients to them - like me. any suggestions? Or is it just too bad? You know I’ve been trying to get this sorted out for months now.
Thomas
I will send him a personal email and CC you on it. I’m not sure what the deal is, but it’s not the Jermey I know… he must have something going on.
Hola Eric,
Just want to thank you for helping me out. I did get a message from Jeremy, finally - we’ll see how things proceed from here. I like the product, too, but the support is less than stellar. Again, thanks..
Thomas
Oh, and by the way, Eric, you may have seen my site. Jeremy Burns will be one of my first posts under emergency alert for scams. Its one of the reasons I made the site but never thought it would be me who was scammed
Just checked out your site… the post on Michael Dunahee really brought back memories. I was in grade school in Vancouver at the time, and remember seeing the posters all over my school. Very sad.
BTW- I think your site is a great idea. Either as a for profit or non-profit. I would tweak the design. While the header graphic is cool I think its too spooky looking. I would try to give the site more of an “official” and trustworthy look. I would also use a mod_rewrite script to make your URL’s more user-friendly. (/person_name instead of viewquest.php?id=###). But more importantly you need to inject the person’s name into the title tag for SEO.
It’s an ambitious project, but I think it’s really cool. I also like the HelpSolveThis twitter concept. Now you just need some followers
Thanks for having a look at my site. Michael is the first case I put on due to me living in Victoria. And, yes, its sad. Hopefully my site can make a difference.
As you may have seen, Q&R sends out posters to registered users. If it all works out and I get enough members, it would be very difficult for anyone to get away with anything (stolen cars, abductions, crime, etc,). I’m glad you like the concept. I just have to find a way to get people on board - maybe focus on parents…
I think I’ll donate some of the money collected to whatever cause. I’ll charge a small fee for posting (it would be much more expensive and time consuming to do it all one’s self - say USA or advertising for canada).
Thanks for the advice. I’ve been trying to get people to give me advice, but never seem to get any. I’d like you to clarify a couple of things for me. When you say tweak the design, what exactly are you referring to - the header or other things? And can you give me an example of what you term ‘official or trustworthy’. I don;t take it bad at all, but I’m not sure how one does make it so.
I’ll see what can be done with the scripts.
Again, thanks for the tips and if you see anything else that requires attention or new ideas, let me know - its appreciated
Cheers,
Thomas
I went looking for examples of more trustworthy looking sites in your niche, and had a hard time finding any! The vast majority were very amateur looking, so I guess that’s good for you in a way. Probably the best examples of “official looking” sites I found were:
http://www.missingkids.com
http://www.amberalert.com
http://www.mcsc.ca/ (I like this one best out of these 3)
But I don’t really like those very much either. I like the simplicity of your interface better.
So I think just changing your header, background, and footer would help a lot.
right now the header looks like a “personal” website. IMO it should look more like a government website, or something a little more corporate.
For the background, I would recommend solid color, something lighter.
And no footer graphic.
I think the best way to make your site become what you want it to be, is going ot be to find a way to get a lot of free media attention in newspapers, magazines, TV, etc.
That is not an easy thing to do, but it can be done. I would suggest “seeding” your site with many more active quests, by searching around the internet for personal sites that people have set up in effort to help their own quest.
You might start a blog, and start building a list too. You could become an expert authority on this topic, and then you can position yourself to the media to be quoted when such topics are covered by them.
At that point I think you would just need a big “break”, which would best come as a quest solved as a result of your site. The bigger the quest, the better. You can then take that to the media and publicize it as a success story, which would get more people to post quests. Then after some more quests are solved, it can reach a point of critical mass, with plenty of social proof… and can snowball from there.
Very ambitious, with fairly low chance of success. But definitely can be done.
Eric you are a fortunate man, the Lord has been good to you and your wonderful family.
Please Eric don’t think me forward for making this appeal. I have been the pastor of a church in East Belfast now for thirteen years.
I have been personally threatned, bullets shot through the windows, car windscreen smashed, Grafitti sprayed over the walls with the foulest of language.All our wndows are wire glass with metal grills on the outside. I was approached to let the church out once a month for a community dance, I couldn’t do that. Church cannot be made into a market place, It must always be a house of prayer. However Eric we are a poor church, Yet we have been offered a much better church building priced at £250,000 We are offered it at £120,000 Is this not God’s hand? and the best part is our church is called The Upper Room. Eric we need donations. I have set up an ability to recieve donations at http://www.try-jesus.org
Will all my Christian brothers and sisters who read this please pray for us. And if you could send us a drink of water in Jesus Name. I know He will return your giving. Amen
God Bless You All
Pastor Laurence
Hi,Eric
I love reading through your blog,I wanted to leave a little comment to support you and wish you a good continuation. Wishing you the best of luck for all your blogging efforts.
Hi Eric,
You are doing a great work for people in making money on there own in there own business, thank you for all the info and training material. I do not know how you stay so focus getting so much done. And your “be box” great stuff.
On another subject I see that you have been working on getting Gods word out to let people know there is more in life! I just got back from the Philippines (have a small house there my wife is from the Philippines and some of her family are there in Laguna about a hour south of Manila) and see the need there to get out the word of God in a more personal way like every where. I hand out bibles and talk to pastors that are doing a great work have a friend from Germany that has been working for 15 years sponsoring kids to go to college and just starting 3 charity schools for children and he is doing a great job helping the children that can not afford to go to public school there parents making $2- $3 dollars a day on a good day. But things seem to be going a little slow after so many years I fine that it would be great to get it out into a bigger audience. The kids that have some extra money go on facebook and play that crazy game war craft. I know the church grows with hard work and the movement of Gods Holy Spirit. I just was wondering as you go to India have you come up with suggestions to allow The word to get into more peoples lives. The kids use there phones a lot but mostly for text. It is hard for them to afford anything more.
Thank for your time.
Gods protection, Peace and Wisdom be with you and your family.
Thanks!
Pete Rich
keep up the good work brother!
Great blog. As always, buyer beware. Thanks for the valuable lesson.
Eric, as always, thanks for the valuable information.
Eric,
Just one question. Did the person appreciate/acknowledge what you did for him?
Yes he did