Confessions of an Internet Marketing Scammer

Recently my friend Paul Counts was duped by a scammer who is targeting Internet marketers.

In case you don’t know Paul, he’s proven himself to be one of the “good guys” in our industry, who upholds integrity and treats his customers right. It seems like it’s often the good people who fall prey to scammers, because they tend to trust people.

There are always plenty of scams happening online, and I’ve been scammed a few times myself. It’s NOT fun, and to be a victim is one of the worst feelings you can experience. Most people can probably relate to this at some point in their life.

What makes this story unique from the millions is that the scammer actually CONFESSED his scam and told Paul some of the details of his scamming methods.

In spite of confessing to one of his victims, I do not believe the scammer has been caught, and I DO believe he’s still perpetuating his scams. I’d like to share the details with you, so that you can be aware of this particular scam, as well as gain insight that may help you avoid other scams in the future.

DETAILS OF THE SCAM

The scammer posted an ad in a popular Internet marketing forum, advertising an “ad swap”. He claimed to have an opt-in list of 35k subscribers, whom he would email for his side of the swap. The other marketer participating in the swap would email his/her list on behalf of the scammer first.

Unfortunately, the scammer did not have a list. He was duping Internet marketers into sending out his promotions, in exchange for nothing.

VARIATION OF THE SCAM:

An ad was posted in the Warrior Forum advertising a “solo ad” to a 50k opt-in list, for $287. Several Internet marketers bought this offer, but received nothing in return.

One victim was Socrates Socratous, a well-known Internet marketer who paid $500 in a deal with the above scammer, and $450 to another (or maybe the same) scammer the same day.

Due to the nature of the scam, I think it is very possible that Paul’s scammer is the same guy.

PAUL’S PLEA TO THE SCAMMER:

After the scammer failed to fulfill his end of the deal, Paul sent him this email:


Hello Andy,

I really wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt here, but the longer it is taking you to respond to me really tells me that you probably didn’t intend to hold up your end of the deal and promote for me. I hope I am wrong here, but your screen shot showed my offer qued up and it should have taken you just a few minutes to check on what happened. Instead it is terribly apparent that you deleted my ad after you sent me the screen shot. Again, correct me if I am wrong here about this situation.

My main point is that we setup a solo ad as something that is mutually beneficial for both of us. I ended up just promoting your squeeze page and building your list with my valued subscribers, and in return I got nothing from you. My goal with ad swaps is to also build up mutually beneficial JV relationships where I promoted your products in the future and such.

I like to work with people and recommend people and offer that I can trust myself. Please forgive me for the harsh tone here, but Andy I am sure you can understand my position here.

I really hope that I am wrong and that we can resolve this issue soon.

Thanks,

Paul

THE SCAMMER’S CONFESSION

Here is his reply to Paul’s email. I have highighted certain portions to draw attention to them…


From: Andrew Tudor
Date: Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 10:06 AM
Subject: Re: Ad Swap – From Warrior Forum
To: Paul Counts

Hi Paul,

You are entirely correct! The reason I did this is because I don’t possess a list of 35,000 subscribers. I also understand exactly what you are saying about building a mutually beneficial JV relationship and I do apologize if I have caused you any inconvenience, I completely understand your position and you have every right to take a harsh tone, I should say that I am surprised that you consider your tone to be currently harsh because I know that many would be quite pissed off in this situation, I respect your reasonable attitude and yes initially I had no intention to hold my end of the deal, simply because it wasn’t possible for me and if I could have, then of course I would have, hey… at least I am being honest here and not continuing to provide you with BS as I am sure many others would.

You are obviously an intelligent man and everything you said was entirely correct. I have been scamming people on the Warrior Forum with solo ads, which they paid for, in your case I think you have lost less, or at least I really hope so because I understand what you say about trust and providing me with opt-ins, but I am still happy to send your ad out for you as it’s already evident to you that I am trying to build a list here. The guys who have been scammed were sent emails to confirm, however most were actually reasonable and as I made sense of the situation and explained that PayPal disputes would not work and that they could open them and I explained that I would just win and walk away, however I did request that those who wanted another option could avoid this by instead being reasonable with me about it and understanding my situation.

My name is not Andy Tudor, I have actually been in IM a very long time but have only just at this point started trying to aquire a list. Now, I really hate scamming or dishonest business, but recently hit a very hard financial time stuck deep in debt and having my family to provide for which is my 4 year old daughter Jasmine and partner Annie, I have gone down the dishonest route which has not been pleasant, but it provided me with what I required in the current circumstances.

So yeah, the solo ads would have done that alone but I wanted swaps because I wanted to get started with a list and then possibly start working my way up, the problem is with solo ads that many of my customers have complained that they can’t find good solo ads anywhere, so even though I considered this option for starting my list, this put me off.

Now I am not going to lie to you, as talking any more BS won’t get me any further so I might as well be honest here, I have never had to actually reply to any emails regarding swaps yet but I am sure I will have even more soon. The problem here is it’s indeed true that I have been unfair here, and I don’t know exactly what to say because on solo ads if I am to simply leave with a customers money then they have that to lose and by considering the fact they have nothing to lose by hearing me out and waiting for me to build my list so that I can eventually send out their ads is beneficial to them, and I do indeed intend to send out every one of them ads, for the customers that decided to not take what I said into consideration, they opened the disputes and soon after realized that I won them because it was a virtual good, I even explained this to them before but it’s their own fault for not listening on that.

I work through many different identities and own a VERY large amount of websites, this includes forums, membership sites, squeeze pages, product sales pages and quite a bit more. So the point I am trying to make is, that I could just return under a different identity anyway Paul, and I currently have another 58 swaps this week using many different identities. I have revealed my real name to many of the solo ad buyers and shown them my work.

So what exactly do I want? – Ideally, being beneficial to both of us here, I would like to at least offer to send out your ad when I have established an adequate sized list instead of running off with your subscribers, I don’t see the harm in you taking up this offer? – Also, I feel that contacts are far better to have with internet marketing and although I have been slightly influenced by other scammers and my situation, I really dislike working in this dishonest way.

So here you have the full truth, I can’t really explain much further and of course if you find it unacceptable, well that’s up to you really isn’t it? – However, consider my offer because I ask nothing in return, you have provided your side of the deal and when I can, I would feel better if I could return what you have offered rather than running away. Considering, either way will not really bother me too much, I think you are a good person and you certainly don’t deserve this, I am sorry.

I have many skills that lead to me becoming involved in internet marketing, I also am quite knowledgable on the subject and offer any advice. I understand my wrong-doing here, but theres no need to treat me like I don’t understand exactly what I am doing, this is all well planned and I know exactly what I am doing here, So now in regards to my last statement marked in “bold” font: What exactly do you want? – By all means let me know, as I wish to provide whatever I can on my end and remember Paul that this doesn’t mean you should go thinking you are better than myself for example, sure you carry out business in a more honest way but what I mean is, before you go refusing my offer and complaining, the solution here is to simply be reasonable with me because maybe I have something of benefit to you – I hope so anyway.

Best,
Andy

After Paul replied to the above email (the reply is not included here, as I don’t feel it’s necessary), “Andy” the scammer decided to add to his confession in another email to Paul, which is excerpted below…


Hi Paul,

I do have a list, it’s just not 35,000 subscribers at all, I have done lot’s of work in photoshop, website design and sony vegas, basically for the AWeber screenshot I simply used firebug in Firefox to modify the code and took the screenshot, of course if I wanted to I could have managed with photoshop fine but it just pointlessly takes that little bit longer and of course when I modify code, I don’t usually have to worry about anything being out of place even by 1 pixel, unless I make a mistake but that’s never happend so far. It’s like the ClickBank login videos that you see, some may appear very realistic but it’s a simple job of matching the frames between 2 different clips, I do understand that theres a safe-swaps site if you want to find swaps more safely but I had even questioned that immediately to the fact I could program a bot to enter email addresses into a form and then verfiy that I have a large list, I have never done so because I see it as a waste of time and I would be paying increased AWeber charges for fake/bot generated email addresses…

(Andy)

(UPDATE: Added 03/18/11, 1:35PM)
After posting this to my blog, I received another of Andy’s confessionals, which was received by Internet marketer Socrates Socratous. Socrates was scammed by Andy Tudor, and by Dave Rivera (aka Monta on the Warrior Forum), who may or may not be the same person.

Socrates submitted PayPal disputes, which were ruled in favor of the scammers by PayPal (due to the digital goods loophole). After Andy won the dispute, he sent this email to Socrates:


Well, it appears I have won that dispute… so I have changed my mind. The NO REFUNDZ policy now applies.

I look forward working with you again in the future, I will spend the more wisely, don’t worry!

I am going to enjoy a nice cigar, which might seem a waste of money but it’s just to celebrate your failure, the sweet and smokey taste of success..

It’s only $450 man, it’s not much at all, but I guess with all the others out there that I clearly SCAMMED, it all adds up at the end of each and every day!

You are indeed the idiot that fell into the scamtrap. How’s that for disrespect? – You think your money was enough? No, please… it’s the pure enjoyment of scamming you that makes it worthwhile.

I suggest you get onto your credit card company Socrates, it’s obviously a bad sign if you had to use a CREDIT card to purchase a solo ad, what’s wrong? Out of money? I hope you starve.

Best Regards,
Andy

Subsequently, Socrates did file a complaint with his credit card company, and DID receive his money back through a chargeback.
(End of updated section)

CONCLUSION

I could give a lot of my own commentary here about…

…how the scammer justifies his actions by his circumstances, and his “good conscience”…

…how he arrogantly talks of winning Paypal disputes, and has the guts to blame his victims for not listening to him…

…how he is STILL trying to scam Paul and CONTROL the situation in his emails, and even goes so far as to compare himself to Paul…

…the fact that he “feels bad” about it, yet has another 58 VICTIMS lined up already in the next week under his various scammer aliases…

But I’ll leave the bulk of the commentary to you. Please post your comments below.

And most importantly, beware of scammers like “Andy”. As the scammer himself confessed: Anything on your computer screen could be fake. Just because something looks real, that doesn’t mean it’s real.

At the same time, not everything is fake. There are plenty of legitimate opportunities, and there’s plenty of money to be made online. So take this knowledge and apply it to your personal “filter”, as you determine what’s real and what’s not.

Have a great day!

(UPDATE: Added 03/21/11, 2:40PM)

Just a quick update to let everyone know that Mike Filsaime has contacted his rep at PayPal to notify them about the scammer, and PayPal has confirmed that their risk department is taking care of the scammer’s accounts. Thanks Mike. The guys at AWeber have also been notified, and I was told that their security department is handling it as well.

406 comments on “Confessions of an Internet Marketing Scammer

  1. Mike G.

    The guy is a crook, plain and simple… and an arrogant piece of $#!% at that. Just reading his email responses had my blood boiling. Guys like that need to be slapped around a little and shown some consequences of their actions.

    Reply
  2. malcolm wright

    Thanks Eric for sharing this with us.I pray that those who have been taken advantage of by way scam etc received just rewards. God Bless each of you.

    Reply
  3. Bob

    Hi Eric,

    I read the post as well as replies a couple of times and have given the matter much thought before replying. My reply will be long due to the amount of thought and my own experiences/conditions.

    The scammer is wrong, what ever his real name might be. His attitude is arrogant and without a doubt he needs to be brought to justice. That he is preying on those most in need makes the crime worse. I am here because I trust ‘Eric’ to give me good information and materials, I suspect that many of the scammer’s customers trusted him – only to have him fail.

    Back in the 1970’s I was frequently approached by people I barely knew through business or social contacts because they had discovered that I had no criminal record. I might be asked: Did I want to make some easy money? Did I want to get somewhere in the world? Be important? Then the offer which was usually either 1 pick up a van at Miami International Airport and ‘just’ drive it to Atlanta or another city to the north for several thousand dollars – or make a flight down to a South American country and then back, all expenses paid and plenty of profit. Despite the fact that it was difficult making ends meet with a new family, I always refused. We needed the money but I had friends who had ruined their lives with drugs. I had children and was concerned that they might one day they might become involved with drugs. The Bible speaks strongly about those who would harm little children.

    Despite the need I refused the kind offers and tried to avoid the people involved.

    Fast forward to 2011 where I have lost one home due to a judge that could not discern truth from lie. (I had thought that going to court might result in justice, silly me. It is more a game to see who can twist the facts enough to win. The lesson is to avoid court). Where now, in my 50’s I live with my mom and am faced with seeing my mother close to the loss of her home – partly due to unscrupulous lending practices and banker’s greed. I figure another two to three months will tell. The amount is not all that great, under 10K. One thing we have learned – AVOID REVERSE MORTGAGES.

    I read the information about the scammer with interest, looked at my own conscience and decided that I could not do such a thing. My Christian beliefs aside I don’t think I could lie and deceive and prey on people who may be in just as dire straights as I am. (Nor could I do it to someone who was well off, they earned their money). It is just simply wrong not to give someone what they pay for, and wrong to inflate the value or potential of what you offer.

    I feel fortunate to have found Eric’s Tips and continue to study and try. Still without enough success but I am learning. Through Eric’s advice I have started a hosting company, acquired some resale items and have a sales page that I am developing. I don’t know if I’ll be able to generate the small amount I need to keep my mom from being homeless ($1,500 a month would do it). I don’t expect to see millions rolling in every week but I do keep trying. Help (mentoring or a swift kick to get me over the ‘hump’) would be welcomed as I tend to get caught up on details and this causes delays. There is no money to spend so don’t send me offers for great deals at 70% off, I don’t have the 30%.

    I will continue to walk the honest path though. I might end up homeless or dead – but I will be able to look my children (now grown) in the eye ’til whatever end, and say that I never cheated others or traded on their desperation.

    BG
    management@green-gator.com

    “Do your duty in all things. You cannot do more, you should never wish to do less” ~ R. E. Lee

    Reply
  4. Gary Simpson

    Eric,

    Regarding:

    “(UPDATE: Added 03/21/11, 2:40PM)

    Just a quick update to let everyone know that Mike Filsaime has contacted his rep at PayPal to notify them about the scammer, and PayPal has confirmed that their risk department is taking care of the scammer’s accounts. Thanks Mike. The guys at AWeber have also been notified, and I was told that their security department is handling it as well.”

    It would be nice to let everybody here know what the outcome of this investigation is.

    For a person to access the money in their Paypal account they need to nominate the funds to be applied to a bank account. Banks these days have very strict ID rules.

    Therefore Paypal could nominate to an authority investigating this matter the name and number of that account. The bank, in turn, would have a name and address.

    Hopefully this person will soon be introduced to people like, hmm… “Bubba” at the establishment that Ken Harthun (above) calls the “Crossbar Hotel.”

    There are many ways to conduct forensic investigations across the internet. Every action leaves a “footprint.” Just ask Ken. If he had the time or inclination he could probably do it himself. he has freakish geekish abilities.

    Gary Simpson
    TEMPLE

    Reply
  5. iain

    hello, I’ll be brief. I just wanted to say that as the previous author said, I like and trust Eric. i’m grateful for his generous sharing of information and am pleased he has tipped us off about the real ongoing dangers of the dark side of the internet marketing. thanks Eric.

    Reply
  6. Arindam Chakraborty

    Hi Bob,

    It was heartening to read your comment. As cliched as it might sound, I would say that “we NEED more people like you”. 🙂

    I have blogged about the scam on my blog, in the hope that it reaches more people. 🙂

    Reply
  7. Bruce

    What an unbelieveable story!
    And the arrogance of the man?Woman?
    I don’t place too much reliance on the Fates, but I do hope that the saying “The mills of God grind slow but grind exceeding sure” prevails here.

    Reply
  8. Scott

    Hey Erik Its been a real long time since I have been here. But I ma back to checking in with those i have learned from. Sad but I have been taken more than once online and it going on more and I think. How unfortunate.

    Its hard to know which way to go sometimes but i guess the best thing is to truly do your home work as much as humanly possible. Sometimes that isn’t even enough. Scott

    Reply
  9. RevuGuy

    When ever you here about something like this, the first reaction for most is to warn others, just as Eric & Desmond both have done.
    If you google “New Scammers Trying to Scam Internet Marketers”,
    and click on the Cached link to the Warrior Forum post you can plainly see that there was absolutely NO reason whatsoever to delete his post other than to protect the interests of those who make their living there. It had NOTHING to do do with the link to the article here. I say this because I have seen the same exact scenario played out over & over again when I have searched the WF for honest reviews of a product only to find a deleted thread in Google’s cache where someone is trying to warn others about a scam or worthless product. I just finished searching WF in Google & there is not ONE single result except for that deleted thread.
    This is one reason why fraud is so prevalent there. MANY times someone who tries to warn others at the forum like Eric & Desmond did are banned permanently.

    This is the deleted thread:

    Desmond Ong

    New Scammers Trying to Scam Internet Marketers

    Hello everyone,

    I don’t read a lot of blog post but my friend Eric just wrote a blog post about something that is very alarming.

    Basically there are some scammers out there who scam internet marketers by telling them that they have a huge list and want to adswap or sell them solo ads.

    Here’s the full blog post about it:

    Confessions of an Internet Marketing Scammer | Eric’s Tips

    I am by no means associate of this blog post and the only reason I am putting this link here is to let the community know about this.

    If moderator feels like this post should be removed, I suggest you make a new thread and alarm other Warriors about this because this scam occurs IN this forum itself as mentioned in the blog post.

    Personally, I’ve talked to a few of these scammers and thank God I am smart enough to not pay them anything upfront as I’m always the “I pay you 20%, you do it, I pay the rest guy”.

    Cheers,
    Desmond

    Reply
  10. Nancy Radlinger

    WOW I have to agree with Linda here – this guy needs to be stopped and with the dollar amounts that I’m seeing here some would be more than petty theft – it’s a shame that this guy has no morals and is raising a kid in that enviroment – shame, shame, shame.

    Reply
  11. Nancy Radlinger

    Oh I like this one and would love to see someone like this loose the list he got in a dishonest way – would serve him right. And then to have the nerve to say this after all he’s done – “I suggest you get onto your credit card company Socrates, it’s obviously a bad sign if you had to use a CREDIT card to purchase a solo ad, what’s wrong? Out of money? I hope you starve.”

    Reply
  12. Shh

    Hi and thanks for the insights,
    I have been learning and trying to be an internet marketer, though I am very clear right from the beginning what my values are as well as Karma follows this latter is very real hence before I would initiate any action on my part I want to present good ethics , give out to the universe all the very best as it will come back ten-fold.
    I have bought many such systems that would have had squeeze pages, i.e. get it now.. last 7 copies ….. once the doors are shut …. you will be left out… I have fallen for all kinds of tricks and have incurred unnecessary debt for which I am still paying on behalf of my bad judgement;(
    In my early days just under 2 years ago I was a real newbie…. now I don’t need a Guru as I do not believe in this term ‘ guru ‘ In India you can find gurus dime a dozen… well on the IM is no different only there is so much GREED that every Tom Dick and Harry wants to show me an Exotic car and or a Beach with Palm Trees and Oceanic waves that I could enjoy and work less than 4 hours a week etc.
    I am presently learning more through my local library system as there is so much that I can learn … our libraries are basically having all types of Internet Marketing tools, including one such course that I came across that shows html, xhtml ,link, dreamweaver,wordpress by ‘Professor Teaches I have now more knowledge and insights than any course that the guru’s on the IM is selling for over $3K.
    I have been left in the dark by my own fault as in opting in to many marketers freebies or some type then finding out that they send special offers on a daily basis clickbank offers, webinars… they learn something new and attach these messages with the auto-responders and I was gullible and first but soon realized that these auto-responders are basically written as sales copies with excellent writer skills boy have I fallen flat on my face… I have since moved away from being a VICTIM.

    Reply
  13. Sergio Felix

    I got pissed just by reading this, I seriously can’t imagine what Paul or Socrates could have felt when they were reading this SOB replies. What a complete piece of s***.

    On the other hand, thank you a LOT for posting this Eric, being an IT guy I feel somewhat naive as I would have never guessed that people would actually go through all that hassle (video framing and such) to mock something or all the programming this mofo does to fake things up.

    It really gets my nerve I still can’t believe it, this guy already knows (or at least that’s what it seems) how marketing works, why the hell scam people? He could make much more $$$ if he actually took all that driving force into something positive.

    There are some minds out there that I will never be able to understand *sigh*

    ~Sergio Felix

    PS. Cool thing that Socrates actually managed to get his money back. 😉

    Reply
  14. Cheryl Wright

    Mary, I had a similar problem with Clickbank, but not as bad as yours.

    I had a dormant account (with no merchant account) I was trying to resurrect. I paid for the merchant facilities but Clickbank wouldn’t activate it.

    Finally I wrote to them and asked what was going on. They said I’d been spamming, which was totally untrue.

    So I told them it wasn’t right, and they needed to prove it.

    Of course they couldn’t, so they backed down.

    I hate Clickbank with avengence and only use it because affiliates insist on using it.

    In my opinion, Clickbank are control freaks. They refund all the time because they can. What they need is for marketers to stand up to them – and ultimately go elsewhere when possible. (No business for them would result in policy changes.)

    Eric, thank you so much for telling us about this guy. I think I may have had correspondence with him on the WF. He kept PM’ing me over and over until I ignored him.

    He is so overconfident that he has obviously done this dozens of times, if not more.

    It would be very helpful if his aliases were posted…

    Reply
  15. Joann

    He’s trying to manipulate his victim. I’m so glad you warned us about this particular scammer.

    Reply
  16. kline

    How can he get away with it? I thought experienced marketers are not so easy to be scammed.

    Reply
  17. Lis Jakub

    Just in case you’re interested – here’s how I was scammed.

    http://www.squidoo.com/beware-this-is-a-scam-

    I know you, Eric, are a Christian person, but making that known can also be a trap. It makes you more trustworthy – as it should. Still, the people who scammed me – and ultimately not only cost me over $ 15,000.00 but also my health – were/are Mormons. I’m not Mormon, but I believed that they and I had enough in common for me to trust them, a trust badly misplaced and totally undeserved.

    Anyway, for what it’s worth, here’s my experience. I also have individual names. I did not include them, because I feel for these people’s children.

    Lis

    Reply
  18. Donna

    Isn’t there any way they can track him through his IP address? Seems the FBI or other law enforcement can track down anyone when they really want to. Maybe I’m mistaken.

    Reply
  19. Uncle Dimitry

    Hi Eric,

    in one of emails, “Andy” mentions my site (Safe-Swaps) as a secure way to buy/sell mailings.

    Here is a quote:
    “I do understand that theres a safe-swaps site if you want to find swaps more safely”

    Your readers will be interested to get protection they deserve and forget about scams… so let’s create a special discounted offer for your people.

    Best, Uncle Dimitry.

    Reply
  20. Eileen Harvey

    Wow this is unbelievable. I can not believe the gall of some people. All I can say is How big are they?

    Reply
  21. Eileen Harvey

    Actually I came here to say that I guess I will be missing out on the PLR Package, since I will not be getting any money till the 4th. And no I am not a scammer LOL

    Reply
  22. gerry

    Flagging up this scamming method is very useful.
    Helps some others from falling prey to the scam.

    Reply
  23. Alberto

    Anytime you are looking for a SHORTCUT to achieve something of high importance for your business, something that normally requires hard work and time invested on your part, the probability of becoming a victim to a scammer increases. Especially if you entrust something that is crucial for your business to a person you know nothing about.

    Looking to benefit from what seems to be lucrative shortcuts and dealing with totally unknown persons via internet is looking for big troubles.

    If you want to build a list do it the hard way,
    all by yourself, or do it together with someone you already know much about.

    Reply
  24. Fran Watson

    I have seen several ads like this one over the past month, promoting “1 click to prosperity”, but since I have been online for a few years, I know that it takes a whole lot more work than that to make even a little bit of money.

    Reply
  25. Fran Watson

    It seems that many people have “a good friend who…..” I have many of these emails coming in every day and I just delete them. Some may be legit, but I tend to stick with the names I know.

    I am going to do what Jim suggested a few posts back, put a link to this on my Internet Marketing Blog.

    Reply
  26. X

    A person’s religious beliefs should not be a part of this conversation. In fact, it’s a red flag to me when someone needs to start waving any religious flag to establish credibility. Jesus came down hard on hypocrites – people who claimed and showed publicly when the truth was something different in their heart.

    There are many scams that run through the Warrior Forum. You find some great people there and some great deals too. However the setup of the system discourages honesty when it comes to these type of scams. The best thing is to only do business with people well known in the community – and even then, people are fallible.

    These $300-$500 deals are the scammers sweet spot.

    As for one of the noted heroes in the story here, BS. He essentially scammed a business partner, put him in serious financial doo-doo and the guy can’t pay people (like myself) that he owes money too.

    If you want to share the truth Eric, dig deeper on the people you boost up.

    Reply
  27. Heather Buen

    WOW! This is interesting! I know nobody wants to hear about Church sermons I heard this weekend, but the one I heard applies here. Romans 5:3 – 4, suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. Character is created based upon not only actions but reactions to things. This Internet scammer uses “circumstances” but in no way suggests that conscience plays a part in building a good character. Maybe he wouldn’t be in his current circumstances if he didn’t try to scam people. Food for Thought?!?

    Reply
  28. Victoria Gates

    WOW that guy is sick.. what on earth makes people act this way.. I feel dirty using an automated article submitter some days lol

    Reply
  29. Jason Anderson

    Shocking but not surprising. Business can be hell. Luckily this is just hundreds of dollars not hundreds of thousands of dollars.

    Reply
  30. Mark

    THX Eric,
    here’s an incredibly serious problem. Just damage, that nobody dare to share openly about…YOU are almost first!
    Nice, you all might know already that during about last 15 month “famous cinnamon guys” use ALL possible Names even of most respectable marketers to resending genuine scam! Here am a bit perplex, because when i asked ’em about, silence totale! Are you all participante? – noooo, sorry, can’t believe, why you would like to risk so big+your reputation included?????
    Well, unfortunately because they are australian, here’s a little problem to calm down ’em…Any unsubscribtion are absolutely impossible since “you” are somehow falling in that mlm-trap.PHEW.

    AND I don’t know if I may dare to put the name of one other “famous scam-artist”, who is at last time a bit cached…hopefully because some of irs/fbi guys shows some “interest” to…

    Now, cause PPal – here’s too some hot problem, because these scammers use there simply the real names of real “clueless” people – i know because we were three from my own family inculped because of that & we were almost arrested because of “fraud”… Well, today we can smile a bit, simply because one of family members is well-known international lawyer, but how many other clueless people risk their reputation?

    greets from france,
    have a great W-E
    Mark

    PS:
    BTW, this “Andy Tudor” seems is that from Romania, Europe, one, uh-oh then…

    Reply
  31. Mark

    Mike, btw, i have send to you warning perhaps a month ago about these 3 “cinnamon” guys. Has you contacted ’em or they are, too, one whom you admire & wrote about in you “viral”-cyclopedies? I ask, because your name seems disappear for now. The Jeff Johnson’s, too.
    But many other they still are there & seems very popular – finally, why not to use, that assure that any email will be open!!!!, just the links are not about propoting any of your products/services…
    Am sorry for my ton, but frankly i just try to figure out who is who in your “game”.
    cheers!

    Reply
  32. Kristoffer Nordquist

    Hello

    Thanks for writing about this as it can become a big problem and I hate to see things like this about scammer happening.

    Reply
  33. KC

    I am one of those, who’s been scammed by the Commission Crushers, and I mean I got taken to the cleaners, big time!! I’m not sure why but this little boy, who thinks he so damn grown but true, is selling me, this Product, and then the fees just kept on coming. I spent my Entire Month’s Check and now I’ve gotten it all back, but I’m over $ 100.00 in the hole, over OverDraft Fees. I’m so angry..After I signed up, I knew it was not good, as he started to talk about being in LAS VEGAS, in FEBRUARY!! It was just this month, too. OMG, I’m so angry, I’m so, so angry…Why do they allow him , to keep doing this? Why is it, he’s NOT been Banned? I knew I had been screwed over right away and I right away went to get my Refunds. Now speaking of “Refunds”, There’s another Marketer, who just plain WON’T give me back my money!! I’m owed $ 37.00 by Mack Michaels, or whoever he is this week, but I’m so dang mad, over this. he’s claiming to be rich, so why not pay me back, heck I never got the Software, either…I’m very angry over all this, in fact, I’m done, I do not wish to do this anymore, for I’m just too sick. I’m a Cancer patient, and I’m sicker than I have been in a long, long time, now. I hate what he’s done, and Mack too. I do not care if the both see this, and Oh yeah, I know your HACKING my Computer, Iser…….!!! OMG, what a fricken PUNK HE IS!! If we met, I’d beat his A$$. Thanks for allowing me, my say.

    Reply
  34. Patty

    Scammers are all over the internet. I am also a scam victim. Instead of going into my story, I wanted to share that the scammers, Raygoza, Stipes and Molina have a new site called salesmango.com. I know this because our attorney has been following all the scams that are being pulled by John Raygoza and his buddies. If any of your internet marketing partners, friends and readers are considering outsourcing any customer service management, please let them know not to sign up with salesmango as it is a scam.

    Patty Ledoux

    Reply
  35. Rich

    I feel sick reading about all these scammers. It’s enough to drive you to drink. It’s getting more and more rampant in the IM niche. I think it got worse the day John Reese did the million dollar day. I remember things changing for the worse afterwards.

    Reply
  36. Eric Post author

    Cool, thanks for the offer. Sure just let me know what you have in mind.

    Reply
  37. Dave Cleinman

    This guy is such a scumbag! I suggest we track them down and feed them to the sharks! Even at my worst moments I never once considered scamming people!

    As for those who were ripped off, they must have contacts that can help them figure out who this scammer is and how to stop him and even bring him to justice.

    Great, albeit scary post, Eric! Thanks for the heads up!

    Reply
  38. azuma

    These scammers are there real, They’ve done it to me before,you pay for services which are not rendered. We just have to be careful. It is part of the experience.

    Reply
  39. John Paneerselvam

    Dear Bro.Eric.,

    Kudos to you for bringing to light the con-artist Andy Tudor’s atrocious & blatant scams. Jesus said: “The thief comes to steal/loot, plunder & destroy”. People like Andy represent the “thief” & they abound everywhere. And everyone should be careful lest the enemy who is lurking like a roaring lion devour us as the Bible says.

    Reply
  40. Uncle Dimitry

    fist of all I’ll give free account for you to be sure that it’s a highest quality service.

    Your folks will get good lifetime discount. In addition my team will hand coach them for free in order to quickly get started.

    Most importantly, they will get 19 levels of protection from scams.

    Of course you’ll get half out of everything your people purchase for their membership lifetime. Your landing page will be personalized with your name, photo, text, anything you need.

    Just email me or reply here.

    Best, Uncle Dimitry.

    Reply
  41. Jill Carpenter

    Well, you know the punchline here right? (disclaimer: I have no proof of anything here, but just linking names seen) Here is a guy who puts out a product called “Google Predator.” And what is really amazing is it was a decent product in itself. Not sure how much of the story behind it is true now, but much of what is in it is verified information on how to do some of your run of the mill affiliate marketing etc. I know because I had bought it and had even left a comment.

    Someone emailed me several months going back, asking me about that product – or my comments on it and asking me to check out another offering from “Andy”. Well, I went to the page which was an offer on him making some kind of site and using plr and blah blah blah and it was a grand or so, but what caused my immediate response of “Whoa Nelly” was that he was looking for people to send him a wire transfer of money I believe in order to make the payment. What? Huh? Huge giveaway that something had drastically changed.

    I have gone to some really nice places in my life, but it never guarantees that the company there is always on the up and up. I hate to see people feeling so negative about WF, because there are a lot of good people there too. Bad elements will always be attracted to good places. There is no way to ever completely avoid that.

    Anyway, I’m slightly confused by some of the conversation above. When looking at the adswap ad, it is signed by a guy named “Dave.” Then we have andyt2011 who endorses Dave. But somehow Paul is getting emails from an Andy Tudor. If I had signed up for a service from Dave, I would have thought I would get emails or communication from Dave? Even the skype name says David Rivera. I’m confused on why Paul is addressing him as Andy so early in the game.

    “After the scammer failed to fulfill his end of the deal, Paul sent him this email:

    Hello Andy,”

    This tells me somewhere along the line, Dave changed his name and made that known to Paul?

    Help me out here. 🙂

    Reply
  42. rehema

    Hallo Eric,i have read that scammer confession,ofcourse it hurts alot, i have scammed too once and there are alot of those emails still flowing in my email everyday.i have stopped reading them.

    Reply
  43. Stephen

    I think it’s not surprising that after all the hype that’s gone on forever – click here tomake millions and live the blah blah lifestyle – that this guy decided to cash in.

    He seems like a scumbag, but the fact he has scammed so many people suggests that so many people are not looking before they leap. It’s called due diligence.

    I have been scammed a couple of time some years ago, like many no doubt have – even some of the so-called big names are just bogus crooks – so now I’m much more careful.

    Perhaps the Warrior Forum should have a vetting procedure that requires, say, 100 votes from established members with some cred before a new member can post or advertise. If a scammer can get past 100 vets, then he’s got some skill. If not, it’ll clean up the forum pronto. Cheers

    Reply
  44. Richard Farley

    Hey Eric! Great post! Your site and you are one of the few I have recommended directly to my list without any affiliation on my part as I think you are one of the good guys. And I’ve done some business with Paul Counts so I know he is on the up and up too.

    I remember back in college, I had a roommate for a while who was a con artist, who used pretty much the same reasoning as this creep, and I read an article about a grifter who used it, too.

    These people (if I can use that term so loosely) always seem to think that they are doing a public service, i.e., teaching the “stupid” or “trusting” a lesson. I guess that sort of rationalization is how they keep from admitting to themselves what useless, dirty, crooked, reptilian parasites they really are.

    Thanks for the post. Let’s all do everything we can do to stop them.

    Reply
  45. Richard Farley

    Whoops! Wrong reply button the first time!

    Mary, you don’t need Clickbank. Set up your own affiliate system. You can do so easily with a WordPress plugin like ‘Instant Action Profits’ or something similar and I, if you come to my website and contact me, as I’m sure will others here, will be happy to become affiliates and help you promote your e-cookbook a little bit.

    Reply
  46. Melissa

    Hello, Eric

    I’m writing because i think i may have been scammed, i say (i think) because i don’t know yet as I’m still waiting for replies to my emails.

    I paid $997 for (COMMISSION SIPHON) nearly 3 weeks ago and not once have they replied to my emails.

    Commission Siphon was recommended to me by (SAM BENJAMIN from Commission Tackers) and I’m searching for answers. Have you ever heard of any of them?

    I strongly feel that (the man calling himself simon) has taken advantage of me and just taken my $997.

    I paid the $997 in god faith on Thursday the 4th of 2011 and due to the fact that this is a recent purchase, im trying to get fresh information on the above businesses.

    I am writing to you as i don’t who else to write to as they don’t have a phone number.
    I’m not sure when or if i should take legal action against (Commission Siphon).
    I hope you are able to give me some advice.
    Thank you kindly.
    Melissa.

    Reply
  47. Guido E. Zecckine III

    I’d just like to say “SHAME ON YOU” to the scammer.

    I follow Eric’s Tips and Mr. Eric has NEVER sent me ANY unwelcomed e-mail… as a matter of FACT, Eric’s mails are some of the hundreds of mails that I get DAILY, and ERIC’S MAILS GET OPENED AND READ! Why? Because he provides REAL SUBJECT MATTER, that is usually REVELANT to what I do online and is ALWAYS helpful.

    I think the scammer talked about here is the WORST KIND OF INTERNET MARKETER THERE IS!

    I own my own business, and I myself couldn’t afford to pay for a NEEDED service and NOT GET THAT SERVICE.

    $400.00 is still FOUR HUNDRED DOLLARS!

    If I give you $400 for a service I never get… I’d find your REAL NAME and I’d hunt you down and give you a good ‘ole BackYard Mississippi ASS WHOOPIN’!!!

    Eric Holmlund has been a godsend in my e-mail box, always providing me with USEFUL AND RELEVANT INFORMATION I can actually USE!

    I actually have an inbox of Eric’s Tips save so I can GO BACK and RE-READ the emails…

    I LIKE to get mails from Eric, as a matter of fact, it makes my day to see his name on my e-mail inbox list!

    I don’t know what can be done about this, but I can almost assure 100%, that after something like this everyone will be a LOT more careful about sending money to someone WITHOUT getting to know them FIRST!

    I have been an Internet Marketing “Warrior” for over 8 years, and I get a LOT of good tips from that forum myself… I have for YEARS, and it’s a GREAT place for Internet Marketers to go and hang out, or to do JV’s etc…

    SCAMMING PEOPLE IN MY WORLD… get’s you a personal, up close, in your face, with your wife and kids watching… ASS WHOOPING!

    Take MY money and run… your butt better go live in Osama Bin Laden’s old cave or somewhere I CANNOT find you… ‘cos $400 is still $400 to me!

    SHAME ON THE SCAMMERS!

    THANKS TO ERIC HOLMLUND!

    I will CONTINUE to subscribe here, and remain a “WARRIOR” until they close the forum… but now I’m even MORE wary of stuff just like this… grrrr

    Thanks Eric, YOU ROCK!
    Guido E. Zecckine III – Owner – iDigitalHosting.COm

    Reply

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