Confessions of an Internet Marketing Scammer

Recently my friend Paul Counts was duped by a scammer who is targeting Internet marketers.

In case you don’t know Paul, he’s proven himself to be one of the “good guys” in our industry, who upholds integrity and treats his customers right. It seems like it’s often the good people who fall prey to scammers, because they tend to trust people.

There are always plenty of scams happening online, and I’ve been scammed a few times myself. It’s NOT fun, and to be a victim is one of the worst feelings you can experience. Most people can probably relate to this at some point in their life.

What makes this story unique from the millions is that the scammer actually CONFESSED his scam and told Paul some of the details of his scamming methods.

In spite of confessing to one of his victims, I do not believe the scammer has been caught, and I DO believe he’s still perpetuating his scams. I’d like to share the details with you, so that you can be aware of this particular scam, as well as gain insight that may help you avoid other scams in the future.

DETAILS OF THE SCAM

The scammer posted an ad in a popular Internet marketing forum, advertising an “ad swap”. He claimed to have an opt-in list of 35k subscribers, whom he would email for his side of the swap. The other marketer participating in the swap would email his/her list on behalf of the scammer first.

Unfortunately, the scammer did not have a list. He was duping Internet marketers into sending out his promotions, in exchange for nothing.

VARIATION OF THE SCAM:

An ad was posted in the Warrior Forum advertising a “solo ad” to a 50k opt-in list, for $287. Several Internet marketers bought this offer, but received nothing in return.

One victim was Socrates Socratous, a well-known Internet marketer who paid $500 in a deal with the above scammer, and $450 to another (or maybe the same) scammer the same day.

Due to the nature of the scam, I think it is very possible that Paul’s scammer is the same guy.

PAUL’S PLEA TO THE SCAMMER:

After the scammer failed to fulfill his end of the deal, Paul sent him this email:


Hello Andy,

I really wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt here, but the longer it is taking you to respond to me really tells me that you probably didn’t intend to hold up your end of the deal and promote for me. I hope I am wrong here, but your screen shot showed my offer qued up and it should have taken you just a few minutes to check on what happened. Instead it is terribly apparent that you deleted my ad after you sent me the screen shot. Again, correct me if I am wrong here about this situation.

My main point is that we setup a solo ad as something that is mutually beneficial for both of us. I ended up just promoting your squeeze page and building your list with my valued subscribers, and in return I got nothing from you. My goal with ad swaps is to also build up mutually beneficial JV relationships where I promoted your products in the future and such.

I like to work with people and recommend people and offer that I can trust myself. Please forgive me for the harsh tone here, but Andy I am sure you can understand my position here.

I really hope that I am wrong and that we can resolve this issue soon.

Thanks,

Paul

THE SCAMMER’S CONFESSION

Here is his reply to Paul’s email. I have highighted certain portions to draw attention to them…


From: Andrew Tudor
Date: Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 10:06 AM
Subject: Re: Ad Swap – From Warrior Forum
To: Paul Counts

Hi Paul,

You are entirely correct! The reason I did this is because I don’t possess a list of 35,000 subscribers. I also understand exactly what you are saying about building a mutually beneficial JV relationship and I do apologize if I have caused you any inconvenience, I completely understand your position and you have every right to take a harsh tone, I should say that I am surprised that you consider your tone to be currently harsh because I know that many would be quite pissed off in this situation, I respect your reasonable attitude and yes initially I had no intention to hold my end of the deal, simply because it wasn’t possible for me and if I could have, then of course I would have, hey… at least I am being honest here and not continuing to provide you with BS as I am sure many others would.

You are obviously an intelligent man and everything you said was entirely correct. I have been scamming people on the Warrior Forum with solo ads, which they paid for, in your case I think you have lost less, or at least I really hope so because I understand what you say about trust and providing me with opt-ins, but I am still happy to send your ad out for you as it’s already evident to you that I am trying to build a list here. The guys who have been scammed were sent emails to confirm, however most were actually reasonable and as I made sense of the situation and explained that PayPal disputes would not work and that they could open them and I explained that I would just win and walk away, however I did request that those who wanted another option could avoid this by instead being reasonable with me about it and understanding my situation.

My name is not Andy Tudor, I have actually been in IM a very long time but have only just at this point started trying to aquire a list. Now, I really hate scamming or dishonest business, but recently hit a very hard financial time stuck deep in debt and having my family to provide for which is my 4 year old daughter Jasmine and partner Annie, I have gone down the dishonest route which has not been pleasant, but it provided me with what I required in the current circumstances.

So yeah, the solo ads would have done that alone but I wanted swaps because I wanted to get started with a list and then possibly start working my way up, the problem is with solo ads that many of my customers have complained that they can’t find good solo ads anywhere, so even though I considered this option for starting my list, this put me off.

Now I am not going to lie to you, as talking any more BS won’t get me any further so I might as well be honest here, I have never had to actually reply to any emails regarding swaps yet but I am sure I will have even more soon. The problem here is it’s indeed true that I have been unfair here, and I don’t know exactly what to say because on solo ads if I am to simply leave with a customers money then they have that to lose and by considering the fact they have nothing to lose by hearing me out and waiting for me to build my list so that I can eventually send out their ads is beneficial to them, and I do indeed intend to send out every one of them ads, for the customers that decided to not take what I said into consideration, they opened the disputes and soon after realized that I won them because it was a virtual good, I even explained this to them before but it’s their own fault for not listening on that.

I work through many different identities and own a VERY large amount of websites, this includes forums, membership sites, squeeze pages, product sales pages and quite a bit more. So the point I am trying to make is, that I could just return under a different identity anyway Paul, and I currently have another 58 swaps this week using many different identities. I have revealed my real name to many of the solo ad buyers and shown them my work.

So what exactly do I want? – Ideally, being beneficial to both of us here, I would like to at least offer to send out your ad when I have established an adequate sized list instead of running off with your subscribers, I don’t see the harm in you taking up this offer? – Also, I feel that contacts are far better to have with internet marketing and although I have been slightly influenced by other scammers and my situation, I really dislike working in this dishonest way.

So here you have the full truth, I can’t really explain much further and of course if you find it unacceptable, well that’s up to you really isn’t it? – However, consider my offer because I ask nothing in return, you have provided your side of the deal and when I can, I would feel better if I could return what you have offered rather than running away. Considering, either way will not really bother me too much, I think you are a good person and you certainly don’t deserve this, I am sorry.

I have many skills that lead to me becoming involved in internet marketing, I also am quite knowledgable on the subject and offer any advice. I understand my wrong-doing here, but theres no need to treat me like I don’t understand exactly what I am doing, this is all well planned and I know exactly what I am doing here, So now in regards to my last statement marked in “bold” font: What exactly do you want? – By all means let me know, as I wish to provide whatever I can on my end and remember Paul that this doesn’t mean you should go thinking you are better than myself for example, sure you carry out business in a more honest way but what I mean is, before you go refusing my offer and complaining, the solution here is to simply be reasonable with me because maybe I have something of benefit to you – I hope so anyway.

Best,
Andy

After Paul replied to the above email (the reply is not included here, as I don’t feel it’s necessary), “Andy” the scammer decided to add to his confession in another email to Paul, which is excerpted below…


Hi Paul,

I do have a list, it’s just not 35,000 subscribers at all, I have done lot’s of work in photoshop, website design and sony vegas, basically for the AWeber screenshot I simply used firebug in Firefox to modify the code and took the screenshot, of course if I wanted to I could have managed with photoshop fine but it just pointlessly takes that little bit longer and of course when I modify code, I don’t usually have to worry about anything being out of place even by 1 pixel, unless I make a mistake but that’s never happend so far. It’s like the ClickBank login videos that you see, some may appear very realistic but it’s a simple job of matching the frames between 2 different clips, I do understand that theres a safe-swaps site if you want to find swaps more safely but I had even questioned that immediately to the fact I could program a bot to enter email addresses into a form and then verfiy that I have a large list, I have never done so because I see it as a waste of time and I would be paying increased AWeber charges for fake/bot generated email addresses…

(Andy)

(UPDATE: Added 03/18/11, 1:35PM)
After posting this to my blog, I received another of Andy’s confessionals, which was received by Internet marketer Socrates Socratous. Socrates was scammed by Andy Tudor, and by Dave Rivera (aka Monta on the Warrior Forum), who may or may not be the same person.

Socrates submitted PayPal disputes, which were ruled in favor of the scammers by PayPal (due to the digital goods loophole). After Andy won the dispute, he sent this email to Socrates:


Well, it appears I have won that dispute… so I have changed my mind. The NO REFUNDZ policy now applies.

I look forward working with you again in the future, I will spend the more wisely, don’t worry!

I am going to enjoy a nice cigar, which might seem a waste of money but it’s just to celebrate your failure, the sweet and smokey taste of success..

It’s only $450 man, it’s not much at all, but I guess with all the others out there that I clearly SCAMMED, it all adds up at the end of each and every day!

You are indeed the idiot that fell into the scamtrap. How’s that for disrespect? – You think your money was enough? No, please… it’s the pure enjoyment of scamming you that makes it worthwhile.

I suggest you get onto your credit card company Socrates, it’s obviously a bad sign if you had to use a CREDIT card to purchase a solo ad, what’s wrong? Out of money? I hope you starve.

Best Regards,
Andy

Subsequently, Socrates did file a complaint with his credit card company, and DID receive his money back through a chargeback.
(End of updated section)

CONCLUSION

I could give a lot of my own commentary here about…

…how the scammer justifies his actions by his circumstances, and his “good conscience”…

…how he arrogantly talks of winning Paypal disputes, and has the guts to blame his victims for not listening to him…

…how he is STILL trying to scam Paul and CONTROL the situation in his emails, and even goes so far as to compare himself to Paul…

…the fact that he “feels bad” about it, yet has another 58 VICTIMS lined up already in the next week under his various scammer aliases…

But I’ll leave the bulk of the commentary to you. Please post your comments below.

And most importantly, beware of scammers like “Andy”. As the scammer himself confessed: Anything on your computer screen could be fake. Just because something looks real, that doesn’t mean it’s real.

At the same time, not everything is fake. There are plenty of legitimate opportunities, and there’s plenty of money to be made online. So take this knowledge and apply it to your personal “filter”, as you determine what’s real and what’s not.

Have a great day!

(UPDATE: Added 03/21/11, 2:40PM)

Just a quick update to let everyone know that Mike Filsaime has contacted his rep at PayPal to notify them about the scammer, and PayPal has confirmed that their risk department is taking care of the scammer’s accounts. Thanks Mike. The guys at AWeber have also been notified, and I was told that their security department is handling it as well.

406 comments on “Confessions of an Internet Marketing Scammer

  1. Guido E. Zecckine III

    p/s For ANYONE reading this thread… ERIC CAN BE TRUSTED! I have given Eric my PERSONAL information as well as my PUBLIC information… why? SO HE CAN CONTACT ME… duh!

    I’d not only recommend Eric Holmlund to my friends and family, but to ANYONE doing Internet Marketing PERIOD!

    I have ZERO hesitation to sending info to MY OWN LIST about Eric’s offers and tips!

    Did I say ZERO HESITATION? Z E R O hesitation…

    I actually feel HONORED to be on Eric’s list so I CAN receive his e-mails!

    An Internet Marketer with class!!! ERIC HOLMLUND!

    You don’t have to take my word for it folks… SUBSCRIBE TO EVERYTHING THIS MAN OFFERS! You will NOT be disappointed! I promise!

    Reply
  2. Micah

    Hello Melissa,

    We recommend that you try contacting them with another email address, in case they accidentally marked your initial email as spam, and are not receiving your messages.

    If you paid electronically, you should be able to get your money back if you act quickly.

    Payments made via PayPal may be sought within 60 days from purchase, or your bank can issue a charge back as a last resort.

    Reply
  3. Bill (LoneWolf) Nickerson

    This is a pretty tough story, but I’m sure it’s not the last time this will happen. I’ve heard of people who buy products on Clickbank and get the refund before they’ve even finished downloading the product. Pretty sad, really.

    I’ve just joined IMTrustworthy.com (set up by Omar Martin) which may be a way to help stem this tide.

    I don’t know if it will work, but it might help. It gives honest marketers an avenue to self police ourselves. We set up our own profile and we can rate each other.

    Omar explains it much better, so go check it out and see if you think this will work.

    https://imtrustworthy.com/?rid=13490

    Reply
  4. Bob

    Hey Eric,

    Have you heard anything about Andy Tudor who sold a deal where he would build you a website for $997, whereby he guarantees that you will make between $2,000 and $5,000 per month??

    Reply
  5. Eric Post author

    I’ve not heard of that one, but the guarantee certainly “sounds too good to be true”…

    Reply
  6. Richard Mortimer

    Hey Eric,

    Thanks so much for taking the time to post this. Are we talking about PHP Andy here? It certainly seems so. There is a ring of familiarity about it. He told me his name was Anderson Smith. He told me he was a Christian (not that I believed him..) I put a PayPal dispute on thousands I’d paid him for programming work. But, I didn’t do it right, and I got a commitment from him… bad move!

    Basically, both Aaron Leighton and me are out thousands. I certainly can’t afford that! I think you are right, he targets nice guys (or we are more easily sucked in). But, in a sense, I am quite glad he has tripped over some bigger hitters than me…

    I posted a thread on Warriors last year, but it wasn’t noticed. There again, if names change, etc.

    Thanks,

    Richard

    Reply
  7. Richard Mortimer

    Hey Aaron,

    You got here before me…! But, you’ll find I’ve mentioned you in my comment below!

    Do you think this could be Andy? (Anderson Smith as he said to me). There is a ring of familiarity about it. “Hard up. Young family.” etc!

    Anyway, good on Eric for the expose. Sad to hear Paul’s been taken. Us ‘Nice Guys’ are wide open, aren’t we?

    Thanks,

    Richard

    Reply
  8. Richard Mortimer

    Yeah, take your point David. But, then look at someone like Sean Mize (top author on EZA). He’s ethical. Really wants to help his subscribers, and is making a fortune!

    I think in this game, “the good guys win!” It just takes more time to do it “RIGHT” and some people find it far too tempting to rip people off. But, in the end, they are the losers.

    We all have a conscience..! Steam-roller it as many times as you like, it always revives!

    Thanks,

    Richard

    Reply
  9. Richard Mortimer

    That’s what makes me think Andy Tutor and PHP Andy are one and the same…! I know PHP Andy is tech savvy and he’s a lying con artist…

    Thanks,

    Richard

    Reply
  10. Scam Buster

    Yeah, and one day you have to give account to God for your whole life. Everything will be exposed. Thoughts, words, deeds, the whole shooting match!

    You can ridicule as much as you want, for now. God will let you! But, you know what, just try silencing that conscience of yours (the best preacher in the world – one for every person)! Go on, just try it…! See..!

    What’s it saying right now? If you can’t quite hear, no problem, its all being recorded and you will get the chance to hear every word. One Day! Wonderful, isn’t it?

    Reply
  11. Richard Mortimer

    Hey Eric, I’d love to help you, if you launch a product on ‘Not Being Scammed.’

    I’ve got quite a few experiences:
    PHP Andy – thousands for coding he never finished
    Raygoza – thousands impersonating Chris Cobb (I got all that back through my credit card).
    People making approaches for adswaps and not fulfilling their side of things.

    Thanks,

    Richard

    Reply
  12. Richard Mortimer

    Hey Uncle,

    Love that! I’ve been doing adswaps with Warriors, and its not been as good an experience as it should have been. At least I’ve had sign-ups.

    In the past, people have emailed me, and I got nothing from the swap.

    So, I’d be very interested in your safe-swaps. What can you do for me?

    Thanks,

    Richard

    Reply
  13. Richard Mortimer

    Hey Eric,

    Here’s a thorny one! I really wanted a ‘good’ product by a well respected marketer. But, he had a continuity program attached to it. So, I had to sign up to that to get the product I wanted. So far, so good. Right?

    Well, here’s the problem: I forgot about it! I don’t know how that happened, but it did..! Plus, this money was going out of my bank account, via my debit card (so I did not notice it – I monitor my PayPal accounts)!

    Anyway, 10 months later I noticed this payment for $97pm. Did not recognise the company, so I Googled it! I came to a site saying, “this is not what you are looking for, go here…” (another company by the same name). So, I thought it was well dodgy…

    Then, I found it was a highly respected marketer. Contacted their help-desk, and after a few exchanges they refunded 3 months “as a courtesy!” But, I am still out nearly $700.

    I explained to them that I did not want the continuity product. If you miss the month, you can’t get it back…! Plus, I did not have the time.

    They offered me more months free, but I still would not get my $700 value. All I was asking for was $700 value for my money and even made some suggestions as to what that might be. They stopped replying…

    So, I am out $700 because I made a mistake! Is that right? I know I would do everything I could to help a client of mine in the same position.

    So, here’s my question: Are continuity programs ethical?

    My opinion is that, its right on the edge. Basically, I am being forced to buy something I don’t really want..! Also, what if someone forgets, like I did? By keeping my money, they are saying, “Tough luck! We designed this so that if you forgot to cancel your standing order, we would ‘legally’ have your money!” Which they do, unfortunately!

    That must be unethical, surely? Even though (right now) its legal!

    Thanks,

    Richard

    PS: I feel like naming and shaming the marketer, but thought better of it!

    Reply
  14. Richard Mortimer

    Interesting! We have a government office near us (in the UK) where they can track ANY mobile and ANY email. Yours, mine, everyone’s – if they want to!

    Of course, they are not interested in the likes of us, but the likes of Andy? Better watch out…!

    Thanks,

    Richard

    Reply
  15. Eric Post author

    Continuity programs are not inherently unethical. It’s an ideal format for membership sites with new content each month, etc.

    Just like any other ongoing service you pay for, like phone or cable.

    But many marketers use unethical means of hiding the continuity portion, like putting it in the fine print or not mentioning it at all. Obviously that’s not OK.

    In the case of forgetting, that’s a tough one.

    Interestingly, I did forget that I was paying for DSL one time (after switching to cable) and ended up paying for it for the next year. Amazingly when I mentioned it to Qwest, they did refund a decent portion of my payments.

    So your request is certainly not unreasonable, but it’s really up to the vendor. I think your request for $700 of value (maybe from other products or a consultation call) is very reasonable, and would make sense in such a situation. That way the vendor does not have to go back and refund many months of payments that you forgot about (which is not the vendor’s fault).

    Now if the vendor billed you without properly telling you about it when you signed up… that’s a whole ‘nother story.

    Reply
  16. Trav

    This Andy guy is a real piece of garbage!

    Reply
  17. blog names

    Wow, what an interesting read. It makes me think that if a seasoned veteran marketer can be scammed, what hope is there for newbies? It is scary and sad that this goes on…especially in internet marketing. No wonder this industry get such a bad rap.

    Reply
  18. Byron

    Beyond the Scam it’s evident that there’s some scary people out there. I wonder what other crimes this guy does offline. SHIT

    Reply
  19. kay

    Hello Eric,.

    I am interested in this programme.
    I am based in London. I understand that this programme is available in many countries.
    But I have few questions-

    (1)Will the adverts I create are from UK or any part of the word or USA?

    (2) Will clickbank pay me in pounds or dollars?

    (3) on first page, you mentioned I need credit card…
    I have UK credit card …Is that fine? (i think should be , as the programme is for all around the word, not just USA)
    I would appreciate if you can answer above queries.
    Thanks
    Also,
    hi Eric,

    I have started to learn your programme…
    I am disappointed at step 3:-

    AS per your instruction I have gone through market place to select a company…
    the link you gave is opening the categories and sub-catergoris but there is no box saying [ear 40%] etc…

    Why is that?

    Why the example you have shown has those links and when i am trying to find …its not there…

    Reply
  20. Eric Post author

    Hi Kay, which program are you referring to?

    Reply
  21. Malcolm

    Ahoy! Why did you sign up with ‘Pete Walker’ as the new nickname then? Didn’t have much success flogging your flop copy in “real world”?

    Reply
  22. kay

    hi eric, I am referring to the programme in which we choose affilicate and
    write adverts for the, … its the ‘writing ach programme’….

    I started to read and follow the steps but like i said I could not find the word in bracket ile. [earn xy%]…….on the example it can be seen..but when I start, links appearing without the bracket ….hope you can tell me what to do..kay

    Reply
  23. Eric Post author

    Hi Kay, I am sorry to say the writing cash progam is currently outdated. PPC marketing still works (see lesson #73 and 74) but it has become increasingly difficult to use PPC to drive traffic to affiliate offers. You can’t just send AdWords clicks to an affiliate link. Instead, you must focus on creating a good website that you can drive traffic to first. I plan on turning the writing cash program over to a new owner soon to update it, as I haven’t had time lately. Sorry again. All the lessons on this website are still valid, and I recommend my coaching club to stay on top of the latest strategies.

    Reply
  24. Karen

    What a piece of work!!

    I spend a lot of time on WF but fortunately have not (as far as I know…) encountered this miserable excuse for a human being.

    The self congratulations are unbelievable!!

    I really feel for the people who have been duped by this idiot.

    Thank you for making people aware of this.

    Regards

    Karen

    Reply
  25. dina

    Hey People, I’m Dina. I have been scammed so many times by different magician scammers, I have a brain tumor, So i have been looking for a cure every way possible, But the Good part now is that i finally found the right one, He has helped me in so many ways, he does all sorts of charms. I am so happy right now, I’m not suffering any longer. Omar is the real thing, I’m sharing this cos i know many more people are being scammed too, So you don’t have to look no further. jch91001@gmail.com That’s his email add, You can contact me also if you would like to know more, dinalookingforu@yahoo.com. Chao

    Reply
  26. Freda

    I thought that one of the purposes of affiliate marketers was to refer their lists of prospects to product owners whom they knew and trusted and therefore recommended to their followers. People are just recommending products even if they don’t know anything about them or the owners just to make a fast commission. This is probably one of the many ways the guys get away with things like this.

    Reply
  27. Down Or Just Me

    Oh my god, I can’t believe that people like this exist in the world! Reading the gloating e-mail after the scam was completed just disgusts me, it is a crazy world out there! Thanks for sharing this, though, I think it’s definitely important for people to read.

    ~Laurie

    Reply
  28. Ansar Pasha

    Wow… this guys comments are infuriating!

    Don’t know how Socrates and you guys handled that garbage… really hope you guys shut this moron down. Looks like the pieces are coming together though… can’t wait for the exciting conclusion 🙂

    Ansar

    Reply
  29. Z

    Here are a few details (from January, real or fake?) if anyone wants to take a trip to Bucharest or if anyone has banking connections:

    Name: Tudor, George Andrei
    Address: Bld. Theodor Pallady nr.17, Bl. U27, Sc.1, Ap.91, Bucuresti, Romania, postal code: 032254
    Email: supportwf at seotopservices dot com
    IBAN Account Number: RO87 CRDZ 024A 1378 2048 8001
    SWIFT Code: CRDZROBU
    Bank Address: NexteBank, Sucursala Tineretului, Calea Vacaresti nr. 278, Bl.68, Sector 4, Bucuresti, Romania.

    These details are from January, when he tried to do the made-for-you Google Predator scam. I didn’t fall for it but tried to extract details from him and this is the closest I got. Whether the name and address are correct or not I don’t know.

    I think the IP he used at the time was 89.43.194.15 – but that doesn’t really help now. Didn’t see this post until now.

    Also, here is a thread that is interesting reading. This is from 2009, when he was running his scams locally in Romania. (In Romanian, thru a Goog translator).

    http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ro&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http://forum.softpedia.com/lofiversion/index.php/t496740.html

    Enjoy.

    Reply
  30. Z

    And here is another link: We can all sleep safer now that we know that our friend George Andrei Tudor has taken a course to develop his entrepreneurial skills. (He is no. 45 on the list – IF this is in fact him, which I think it is.) So – more exciting “synoptic business plans” to follow on the Warrior Forum maybe, so that he can “facilitate his access to finance”?

    “MIMMCMA program to develop entrepreneurial skills among young people and facilitate their access to finance – “START” “SYNOPTIC BUSINESS PLANS”

    http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http://www.aippimm.ro/articol/programe/start/centralizator_plan_afaceri

    Reply
  31. Nathan

    “It’s only $450 man, it’s not much at all,”

    Haven’t he ever thought that he is taking $450 worth of food away from his victim’s family table ?

    Reply
  32. Kevin

    Eric,

    This post seems like BS? Why would a guy admit to committing a crime via email that someone could take to the cops or FTC? I think you have been duped by your friend. Even the stupidest scammer would not admit to these crimes.

    Kevin

    Reply
  33. JD

    This man is not in the U.S. He is in Bucharest, Romania. And I have made local police aware of him. They know who he is. He owes me a refund from incomplete work he promised to do. I have heard back from the Police, but they have yet to make anything happen. I heard from the scammer, Andy, in July 2011, when he wrote me that he would refund my money in two weeks. Havent heard from him since. Waiting to hear back from Romanian Police. I and the police know his real identity and his last known address. Whether the police there will resolve this is anybodys guess.

    Reply
  34. Charles Halstead

    Can you give me a read on http://WWW.HOLLYLORENE.COM. I have been trying to get into Internet Marketing, but I need 1 on 1 to stay out of the scams. All I get is info she must be trying to sell to me.
    Your help would be appreciated.

    Thank You,
    Charles

    Reply
  35. Micah

    Hello Charles,

    That link is just pulling up a broken opt-in page currently.

    Reply
  36. Joel

    It is so sad to know that people like that exist and continue to do business. Karma! He will end up in jail and or broke, there is no way someone like that can ever enjoy what he has for long. I am almost sad for him that he doesn’t know that.

    Reply
  37. Gordon

    It,s such a shame that anyone should deliberately go out of their way to do something like this, but then again people rob stores, mug people, steal, lie and cheat,this is the ilk of the man you are speaking about.
    I prefer not to dwell on this kind of individual, doesn’t he know that happiness and fulfillment can never be achieved in this way. I guess widespread publication of this information helps us to be wary and that’s wise, but I believe that most people are genuine and characters like this scammer are in a small minority.
    I honestly feel sorry for him, but I’d still like to slap him.

    Reply
  38. Gordon

    I think you raise a good point Freda, or maybe I am being naive, but if you have taken the time to build a good relationship with your list wouldn’t you want to make sure that you weren’t sending those people to an unscrupulous $@^&* person.

    Reply
  39. Louis D trusted online money

    WOW! It is rare to see such a bold blaitent act of psychotic manipulation…

    That guy has issues, I mean I can actually muster some compassion for him he clearly is extremely deluded…

    I bet Paul was like “WHAT IS HE SAYING?” when he read that reply?

    Kindest Regards Louis Doughty

    Reply
  40. Louis D trusted online money

    Exactly, $450 is half a months wage for some people… That is terrible… plus $1 is to much…

    I could not believe it when I read that but…

    Kindest Louis D

    Reply
  41. Sven

    I met a guy bragging about having done something like this in Thailand. His name is Matt Stenning. His girlfriend is called Ann (not Annie) and as far I know he doesn’t have a daughter? But the rest fits…
    http://www.facebook.com/MattStenning

    Reply
  42. Mark Dulisse

    This is hilarious.

    Without endorsing the scammer, poor Socrates Socratous, I do not feel sorry for him at all.

    This is what happens when you treat your list like crap and you do adswaps, etc….

    Adswaps are for the desperate marketers who is looking for a shortcut to success. Ouch! 🙂

    Reply
  43. Bob Callahan

    People keep on believing that there is a magical step to succeed on the Internet. There are so many con men on the net that giving it a number is impossible. I read some of the warrior forum stuff early on and was not impressed at all. The Internet is not different from a local business other than the face to face as I see it. There is good help out there and you can find it. ” IF IT SOUNDS TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE THEN IT IS”

    Reply
  44. Lonnie

    WOW! I did not realize this was this big!

    Thanks Eric! You are one of the sharpest, honest ethical marketers I know and I’ve learned a tremendous amount from you. I sincerely appreciate you for bringing this to light.

    I also suffered a small loss to Andy Tudor. I
    did get a partial refund from American Express.

    This sucks Big Time.

    What’s worse is the fact that PayPal doesn’t support us on issues like this, yet are quick to freeze and limit accounts of ethical marketers.

    A few years ago, I had my account frozen (like Paul) and had my money held up (without interest) for over 180 days. By the time it was all said and done, I had lost almost all my money due to charge-backs and refunds, as well as the credibility I once had with JV partners and customers.

    It has been a long journey.

    It’s as though we get punished for offering legit products and services (that they don’t understand), while they support the practices of people like Andrew Tudor because it was a virtual good. Really? What’s wrong with this picture?

    Reply
  45. james mcleod

    I personally think it is utterly absurd that paypal can take any kind of fee from any kind of transaction that deals in virtual goods and then walk away from any and all responsibility when said virtual goods dealer openly admits they are a crook or otherwise. What they are doing in reality is what can easily be described as aiding and abetting if I am not mistaken, which is essentially the same crap that is going on at the warrior forum.
    If a refund is out of the question because it is a virtual product then they shouldn’t be involved in virtual products business at all. Kind of like a ‘shit or get off the pot’ scenario.

    Furthermore, from what I have seen happen here, is that paypal did nothing about this issue until the “big guns” came out, in this case Mike Filsaime (no disrespect intended here) got involved, and saved the day.

    I personally have waded through hundreds and hundreds of IMers possibly even thousands if you include their multiple streams of aliases and have made it through completely unscathed and I will tell you why. I did my homework every time.

    Now, having done my homework I have been able to weed out a lot of fodder and out of those thousand or so IMers I have managed to find only a handful of honest and truthful people like the host of this fantastic site. You have provided more value here than all of those hundreds and thousands of shit slingers put together.

    Eric, you are the epitome of what is good and just and honest in this world of IM marketing where others are more interested in filling their pockets at everyone else’s expense. I want to thank you.

    James Mcleod

    Reply
  46. james mcleod

    They don’t give out a list of emails to the other in a swap. What they do is email the other persons offer to their own list. What happened here is Paul emailed his own list with andys offer and andy did not reciprocate because he had no list to send pauls offer to. What happens then is andy gets free exposure and his subsequent list building comes as a result of people who paul sent andys offer to are now opting in to andys list. There is no trading or giving away of anyone’s email by anyone.

    Reply
  47. Donald

    people like him do exist. They don’t give a toss. He’ll get his come uppance, people like him always do.

    Donald

    Reply
  48. Anonymous

    What Is Wrong With This person where is his heart?
    Its sad to see these type of people even are free to roam around the internet and do these low life acts…

    These people deserve to be lock behind bars where they belong!!!

    Reply
  49. Kusuma Widjaja

    Well Paul, Now I really hope you can see my message here, since I send many emails to you but no reply from you. It’s about Order ID # 208679543 (solo ad service 21-Mar-2013 Transaction ID: 5103477701) & Order ID # 210856826? (Website Traffic Methods Exposed Transaction ID: 5231200749)

    Why I got no link to download & my solo ad sent? I have no option to say it here since you website can’t be access (imguruplr.com, paulcounts.com & layoffyourbossmarketing.com/support)

    Please give attention to my matters, since I think you still “good guys” in our industry

    Thanks
    Kusuma

    Reply
  50. Micah

    Hello Kusuma,

    Paul recently changed servers, causing some of our websites to be down for a few days. Your message was likely lost during that time.

    Please contact us, along with your receipt and any questions, at the helpdesk for this item:
    http://www.layoffyourbossmarketing.com/support

    Reply

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